{"id":13740,"date":"2026-09-19T01:11:26","date_gmt":"2026-09-19T05:11:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/how-to-legalize-medical-psychedelics-in-your-country-tania-de-jong-on-the-playbook-behind-australias-world-first-breakthrough-883\/"},"modified":"2026-09-19T01:11:26","modified_gmt":"2026-09-19T05:11:26","slug":"how-to-legalize-medical-psychedelics-in-your-country-tania-de-jong-on-the-playbook-behind-australias-world-first-breakthrough-883","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/how-to-legalize-medical-psychedelics-in-your-country-tania-de-jong-on-the-playbook-behind-australias-world-first-breakthrough-883\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Legalize Medical Psychedelics in Your Country \u2014 Tania de Jong on The Playbook Behind Australia&#8217;s World-First Breakthrough (#883)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <a href=\"https:\/\/hop.clickbank.net\/?affiliate=infohatch&amp;vendor=J1R2C\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10614 aligncenter\" src=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png\" alt=\"Profit Gen\" width=\"400\" height=\"217\" srcset=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png 400w, http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px-300x163.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"819\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration.jpg?resize=1024%2C819&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-116839\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration-scaled.jpg?resize=1024%2C819&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration-scaled.jpg?resize=300%2C240&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration-scaled.jpg?resize=768%2C614&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1 768w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration-scaled.jpg?resize=1536%2C1229&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/09\/Tania-de-Jong-Illustration-scaled.jpg?resize=2048%2C1638&amp;quality=89&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\"\/><\/figure>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My guest today is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.taniadejong.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><strong>Tania de Jong<\/strong><\/a>, co-founder of <a href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Mind Medicine Australia<\/a>.\u00a0Tania and her husband, Peter, helped lead the push that, in 2023, made Australia the first country in the world to allow MDMA and psilocybin to be prescribed for psychiatric conditions. I wanted to understand how the hell they helped make that happen and what the rest of the world can learn from it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Please enjoy! <\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/prolonlife.com\/Tim\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><strong>ProLon<\/strong><\/a> <strong>science-backed Fasting Mimicking Diet that helps activate cellular renewal through fasting, while still eating nourishing meals<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/livemomentous.com\/Tim\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><strong>Momentous<\/strong><\/a> <strong>high-quality creatine for cognitive and muscular support<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/drinkag1.com\/tim\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><strong>AG1<\/strong><\/a> <strong>all-in-one nutritional supplement<\/strong><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div class=\"podcast-player\">\n<div class=\"podcast-player-inner-wrap\">\n<p>How to Legalize Medical Psychedelics in Your Country \u2014 Tania de Jong on The Playbook Behind Australia&#8217;s World-First Breakthrough<\/p>\n<p><noscript><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.art19.com\/shows\/58dacbdc-646e-4585-9914-19c3de11d1ba\/episodes\/8226a13e-77b3-4f59-98af-384d22ce645e\/embed?type=micro\" style=\"width: 100%; height: 30px; border: 0 none;\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/noscript><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Additional podcast platforms<\/h3>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Listen to this episode on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/883-how-to-legalize-medical-psychedelics-in-your-country\/id863897795?i=1000790569549\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Apple Podcasts<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/109CeHXRg9osEyuaETomV7?si=e8GyquytTImfqdF2edAa4w\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Spotify<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/+AAKebsAw3pY\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Overcast<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcastaddict.com\/podcast\/2031148#\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Podcast Addict<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/timferriss\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Pocket Casts<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/castbox.fm\/channel\/id1059468?country=us\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Castbox<\/a>,\u00a0<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLuu6fDad2eJyWPm9dQfuorm2uuYHBZDCB\">YouTube Music<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/9814f3cc-1dc5-4003-b816-44a8eb6bf666\/the-tim-ferriss-show\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Amazon Music<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/podcast\/The-Tim-Ferriss-Show\/B08K58QX5W\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Audible<\/a>, or on your favorite podcast platform.<\/strong><\/p>\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcripts<\/h3>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes<\/h2>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Connect with Tania<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center wp-block-paragraph\"><a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.taniadejong.com\/\">Website<\/a> | <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/au.linkedin.com\/in\/taniadejong\">LinkedIn<\/a> | <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/about-us\/\">Mind Medicine Australia<\/a><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Timeline:<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>February 2, 2015:<\/strong> Michael Pollan publishes \u201c<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.newyorker.com\/magazine\/2015\/02\/09\/trip-treatment\">The Trip Treatment<\/a>\u201d in <em>The New Yorker,<\/em> which is the article Tania credits with setting her journey in motion.<\/li>\n<li><strong>March 21, 2015:<\/strong> Tim releases his James Fadiman interview, \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/2015\/03\/21\/james-fadiman\/\">The Psychedelic Explorer\u2019s Guide<\/a>\u201d (#66). Its show notes link to \u201cThe Trip Treatment.\u201d<\/li>\n<li><strong>January 15, 2016:<\/strong> Tim announces support for Johns Hopkins\u2019 psilocybin research and a personal commitment of at least $100,000 toward psychedelic research that year.<\/li>\n<li><strong>2016:<\/strong> Tania and Peter travel to the Netherlands for their first guided psilocybin experience. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.taniadejong.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/Songs-for-Psychedelics-A-Magic-Mushroom-Adventure-Press-Release-2021.pdf\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>2017\u20132019:<\/strong> UCSF conducts the psilocybin-assisted group-therapy study involving long-term AIDS survivors that Tim helped support. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/articles\/PMC7599297\/\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>May 6, 2018:<\/strong> Michael Pollan joins Tim for \u201cExploring the New Science of Psychedelics\u201d (#313), discussing his forthcoming book (<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/dp\/0735224153?tag=offsitoftimfe-20\"><em>How to Change Your Mind<\/em><\/a><em>)<\/em>.<\/li>\n<li><strong>May 15, 2018:<\/strong> Pollan\u2019s <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/dp\/0735224153?tag=offsitoftimfe-20\"><em>How to Change Your Mind<\/em><\/a> is published.<\/li>\n<li><strong>February 13, 2019:<\/strong> Tania and Peter publicly launch <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/\">Mind Medicine Australia<\/a>. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/understanding\/\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>2020\u20132022:<\/strong> MMA applies to reschedule MDMA and psilocybin, faces rejection, and submits new applications in March 2022. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/wp-content\/uploads\/Media-Alert_MMA-response-to-Interim-Decision-2022-Release_FINAL_261022.pdf\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>November 21, 2022:<\/strong> David Nutt presents to Australia\u2019s medicines regulator, the TGA, supporting the case for therapeutic access. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.tga.gov.au\/sites\/default\/files\/2023-02\/notice-of-final-decision-to-amend-or-not-amend-the-current-poisons-standard-june-2022-acms-38-psilocybine-and-mdma.pdf\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>February 3, 2023:<\/strong> The TGA announces restricted prescribing access to MDMA for PTSD and psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression, effective <strong>July 1, 2023<\/strong>. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.tga.gov.au\/news\/media-releases\/change-classification-psilocybin-and-mdma-enable-prescribing-authorised-psychiatrists\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><strong>January 2024:<\/strong> Patients begin receiving treatment under the new prescribing program. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/mindmedicineaustralia.org.au\/treatments\/\">(Source)<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Books<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Related Reading, Listening, and Viewing<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Organizations and Resources<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>People Mentioned<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong>Timestamps<\/strong><\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:00:00] Intro from Tim.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:02:46] The article that changed Tania\u2019s life.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:04:39] A first psychedelic experience\u2014and the year it took to integrate it.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:10:17] Rick Doblin\u2019s encouragement and the birth of Mind Medicine Australia.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:13:15] Turning regulatory rejection into a stronger application.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:20:48] Building a grassroots movement and training clinicians.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:23:23] Cold emails, scientific allies, and singing your way into the room.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:31:11] A week with Ram Dass: silence, singing, and an extraordinary LSD story.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:37:54] Bringing David Nutt\u2014and a family\u2019s devastating story\u2014to the regulators.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:42:42] Dancing in the kitchen: Australia\u2019s rescheduling breakthrough.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:43:40] From changing the rules to treating patients.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:48:18] Why Tim thinks MDMA is still underestimated.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:50:23] Integration beyond the session: therapy, nutrition, and exercise.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:52:29] Scaling access and collecting real-world evidence.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[00:58:13] Getting insurers, government agencies, and philanthropists on board.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:01:39] Syrian rue, psilocybin, and learning to let go of control.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:10:01] Dosing, expectations, and the pressure to take more.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:12:02] The promise of group therapy and shared integration.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:14:22] Hiring mistakes, personal attacks, and the resilience advocacy requires.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:23:38] Turning a window of change into lasting habits.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:25:51] Getting through to regulators and pushing for end-of-life access.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:28:27] The bureaucratic barriers that remain.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:31:38] What treatment costs\u2014and why therapist time drives the bill.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:35:07] Could shorter-acting compounds make treatment more affordable?<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:38:46] Ketamine, kratom, and the limits of \u201call natural.\u201d<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:43:14] The unexpected payoff from Tim\u2019s ketamine experiment.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:47:46] What might come next for psychedelic access worldwide?<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:49:04] Persistence versus pushiness\u2014and knowing when to try another door.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:54:22] Supporting patients and training the next wave of clinicians.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[01:57:51] \u201cBe curious\u201d: exploring your inner world and walking each other home.<\/p>\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">[02:01:35] The ripple effects of sharing your curiosity\u2014and simply asking for help.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/hop.clickbank.net\/?affiliate=infohatch&amp;vendor=J1R2C\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10614 aligncenter\" src=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png\" alt=\"Profit Gen\" width=\"400\" height=\"217\" srcset=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png 400w, http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px-300x163.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><br \/><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>My guest today is Tania de Jong, co-founder of Mind Medicine Australia.\u00a0Tania and her husband, Peter, helped lead the push that, in 2023, made Australia [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":13741,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[13],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-13740","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growth"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13740","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13740"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13740\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/13741"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13740"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13740"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13740"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}