{"id":8798,"date":"2024-09-17T19:51:10","date_gmt":"2024-09-17T23:51:10","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/my-new-rules-for-podcasting-to-keep-things-interesting\/"},"modified":"2024-09-17T19:51:10","modified_gmt":"2024-09-17T23:51:10","slug":"my-new-rules-for-podcasting-to-keep-things-interesting","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/my-new-rules-for-podcasting-to-keep-things-interesting\/","title":{"rendered":"My New Rules for Podcasting \u2013 To Keep Things Interesting"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Profit<\/a>
\n<\/p>\n

\n

\u201cWhenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.\u201d
<\/em><\/strong>\u2014 Mark Twain<\/p>\n

For nearly 15 years, I started almost every public presentation with the above quote. First and foremost, it was a reminder to myself. It still is.<\/p>\n

Four score and 750+ episodes ago, I started a podcast.<\/p>\n

In 2023, The Tim Ferriss Show<\/em><\/a> crossed a billion downloads. This past April marked the 10th anniversary of the first episode. It seemed as good a time as any to pause and reflect.<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s kick it off with a weird graph and wild numbers:<\/p>\n


listennotes.com\/podcast-stats\/<\/em><\/a>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

The dip in 2022 is simply the resumption of pre-COVID trends, as 2020\u20132021 was an at-home anomaly. That said, the pandemic period saw some of the largest deals<\/a> in the space, and it helped propel deal comps and mass media attention to new heights, a lot of which stuck around or at least heavily rounded up. The celebrities, the ad dollars, the gazillion-dollar exclusives, the controversies\u2026 It\u2019s all been outrageously exciting to watch.<\/p>\n


statista.com\/chart\/10713\/podcast-listeners-in-the-united-states\/<\/em><\/a>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

When I started my podcast in April of 2014, there were fewer than 200,000 podcasts listed<\/a> on iTunes (as Apple Podcasts was called back then). At the time of writing this post, there are more than 4,200,000<\/a>.<\/p>\n

That represents a 20x+ increase, but there are other interesting metrics to ponder. Here\u2019s one: bigger shows.\u00a0<\/p>\n

If we define a \u201cbigger\u201d show as any show with at least 100,000 downloads per episode, I would guess the total number of such shows has at least 100x\u2019d. This is a massive paradox of choice and discovery issue. Having a good show is no longer good enough. Having a great show is no longer good enough.<\/p>\n

If you want to survive in the mindshare of listeners, you need differentiation.\u00a0<\/p>\n

I think this is reflected in how well special-interest podcasts with a focus (e.g., The Drive with Peter Attia<\/em><\/a>, Founders<\/em><\/a>, Huberman Lab<\/em><\/a>, Acquired<\/em><\/a>) have done recently relative to newer interview-format shows where nearly anything goes.<\/p>\n

As is so often the case, if you stand for everything, you can end up standing for nothing.<\/p>\n

\n

So, how do you differentiate yourself if every person and their grandma is starting a podcast?<\/p>\n

If you\u2019re starting from scratch, I think choosing a niche you have a bizarre love for\u2014and therefore endurance for\u2014makes a lot of sense.<\/p>\n

If, on the other hand, you have a broader, interview-based legacy show, it can be a little tricky. Perhaps the business is great, but you see the writing on the wall and want to be ahead of the curve. As I see it, there are at least a few options:\u00a0<\/p>\n

(1) Start a new podcast with a niche focus. Sadly, I suspect I would get bored within weeks or months, but it\u2019s not off the table\u2026<\/p>\n

(2) Pack up your tent and walk off into the sunset in search of other adventures.<\/p>\n

(3) Create new and better rules. <\/p>\n

I landed on #3.<\/p>\n

In the midst of a weekly ship cycle, it\u2019s hard to escape the collective pull of algo chasing, thumbnail tweaking, and details long enough to zoom out. The waters have been churning at a fever pitch, ever changing and ever faster. When you\u2019re inside the washing machine, it\u2019s very hard to step out and get perspective.<\/p>\n

So I decided to take a sabbatical of roughly four months. It ended a few weeks ago.<\/p>\n

During the sabbatical, I stopped recording new episodes, republished some of the greatest hits (e.g., Jamie Foxx<\/a>, Arnold Schwarzenegger<\/a>, Margaret Atwood<\/a>, Jerry Seinfeld<\/a>, and more), and did a lot of thinking.<\/p>\n

The full break allowed me and my team enough breathing room to think about the long game. What do we want to do, and furthermore, why are we doing this at all?\u00a0<\/p>\n

Since nearly all the rules are made up anyway, I asked myself a bunch of questions, including:

What might this look like if it were maximally fun? <\/strong><\/p>\n

What might this look like if it were easy? <\/p>\n

If I get to do this for another decade, or had to<\/em> do this for another decade, what new rules might I create to keep it interesting?<\/p>\n

Of course, these are implicitly \u201cfor me.\u201d It\u2019s a highly personal thing.<\/p>\n

In my experience, keeping it interesting for me generally keeps it interesting for my lovely listeners. At the very least, it\u2019s the only way to ensure I have the enthusiasm required for endurance.<\/p>\n

Sure, sometimes what-Tim-likes is too strange and misses the mark, but trying to cater to the tastes of an abstract \u201caudience\u201d or the YouTube gods, without paying attention to what you<\/em> like, has sent a lot of podcasts to the elephant graveyard.<\/p>\n

And even if you manage to \u201cwin\u201d that game, winning might be the most <\/em>dangerous.<\/p>\n

Rather than getting Old Yeller<\/em>\u2019d behind the barn<\/a>, you have just enough income or traction or validation or growth to make it seem crazy to stop. How could you shut it down? Then you adjust to the creeping boredom and incremental gains, and you convince yourself that it\u2019s all a cost of doing business. You start by feeding the machine through the cage, only to wake up one day and realize that you\u2019re<\/em> the one inside the cage. For an extreme example, read this article on audience capture<\/a>, but it can take many forms. Some are very subtle.<\/p>\n

Media is a great tool and a merciless master.<\/p>\n

Fortunately, this is NOT how things need to be.<\/p>\n

Based on all of the above, here are some new rules that I\u2019ll be implementing starting today:<\/strong><\/p>\n

No more book-launching episodes.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

The podcasting circuit has largely become the same authors appearing on 15\u201330 podcasts in any given week or two for book launches. It\u2019s the modern equivalent of a radio satellite tour. For authors, I totally get it, but I\u2019m over it, and I know a lot of my podcast friends are over it. It\u2019s boring for everyone.<\/p>\n

So, I\u2019m opting out. No more book-launch episodes for a while.<\/p>\n

If I make an exception, it will likely require that both of the following conditions are true:<\/p>\n

\u2013 You\u2019re a truly close friend, meaning we\u2019ve known each other for at least 10 years, we\u2019ve stayed at each other\u2019s homes, see each other multiple times a year, etc.<\/strong><\/p>\n

AND<\/p>\n

\u2013 The episode will come out a minimum<\/em> of three months before the book\u2019s publication date. <\/strong>Early can be a great strategy for authors. This is exactly what I\u2019ve done with past guests like Jocko Willink, who made his first-ever podcast appearance<\/a> (in fact, first public interview) on The Tim Ferriss Show<\/em> in September of 2015. I suggested we publish well before his pub date because this space would allow his publisher to gauge pre-order demand and substantially increase the initial print run. His first book, Extreme Ownership<\/em><\/a>, hit the New York Times <\/em>bestseller list, and the rest is history. Even one month is quite tight if overseas printing is involved, and sadly, a lot of podcasters don\u2019t respect embargos (crabs in a bucket!<\/a>), so\u2026 at least three months in advance it is.<\/p>\n

90\/10 barbell strategy for future guests. <\/strong><\/h3>\n

The barbell strategy is an approach to investing popularized by past guest, author, and self-described fl\u00e2neur Nassim Nicholas Taleb<\/a>.<\/p>\n

The metaphor of the barbell is apt because weights are placed at the far ends. In the investing context and in simple terms, the majority of your assets might be in very conservative positions with the remaining assets in very high-risk, very high-reward bets. For instance, municipal bonds and angel investing. The middle is empty.<\/p>\n

But how could you apply this to a podcast? It\u2019s actually very easy. Just look for extremes. I apply the barbell approach all over my life and business.<\/p>\n

In the case of The Tim Ferriss Show<\/em>, I will aim to interview guests who are either:<\/p>\n

Known by more than<\/em> 90% of my audience (e.g., Jeff Bezos, Steven Spielberg, Oprah Winfrey)
<\/strong>
Or

Known by less than<\/em> 10% of my audience (e.g., some of my favorite past episodes, like <\/strong>Dr. BJ Miller<\/strong><\/a>, <\/strong>Boyd Varty<\/strong><\/a>, <\/strong>Dr. Sue Johnson<\/strong><\/a>, or <\/strong>Elan Lee<\/strong><\/a>)<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m trying to avoid the messy middle, which is a Tokyo subway car of repeat guests on the circuit. It\u2019s crowded, and I don\u2019t like crowded. Cue The Blue Ocean Strategy<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n

Prioritizing living legends.<\/strong><\/h3>\n

I love people who\u2019ve mastered a craft and who seldom\u2014or never\u2014do podcasts.<\/p>\n

I really enjoy interviewing masters who\u2019ve produced excellence decade after decade. This often means such people have some gray hair, and I would love to celebrate them and immortalize their wisdom while they\u2019re still sharp. The last person holding a tradition, the 10th generation of X, a reclusive genius\u2026 you get the idea.<\/p>\n

Experimental hyperdrive.<\/strong>\u00a0<\/h3>\n

I\u2019ve experimented a lot on the show in the past, and I\u2019m going to put that into hyperdrive. It\u2019s simply more fun.<\/p>\n

I have done podcasts in saunas (e.g., Rick Rubin\u2019s first-ever podcast<\/a>), live Q&As<\/a>, walk-and-talk episodes in the mountains<\/a>, drunk-dialing fans for shits and giggles<\/a>, interviews in taxis in Uzbekistan<\/a>, audiobook excerpts<\/a>, and more. It\u2019s easy to assume that slick, labor-intensive, polished episodes get the most downloads, but it\u2019s simply not true. And much more important, the experimentation keeps things fun and fresh. After all, I still consider this the early days for podcasting. Less than one-third of terrestrial radio ad spend has landed in podcasting thus far, and there\u2019s lots of room left to innovate and make strange things work.<\/p>\n

If you only stick with what has worked, you might miss something that works a whole lot better.\u00a0<\/p>\n

So, if you want to listen to one podcast that delivers a variety of fun stuff in a variety of formats, that\u2019s the next chapter. Maybe I should rebrand as The Tim Ferriss Variety Show<\/em>\u2026 or make a mobile-only TimTim WalkWalk<\/em>? That last one is for the oldies.<\/p>\n

\n

So, let\u2019s get this party started.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ll continue to add to these policies and this blog post, but in the meantime, I would love<\/em> your suggestions:<\/p>\n

What would you like to see or hear on the podcast? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Are there any experiments that would tickle your fancy? Or podcasts or formats I should see for inspiration? <\/p>\n

Any guests that fit the 90\/10 barbell strategy? Living legends?<\/p>\n

Other thoughts or suggestions?<\/p>\n

Please let me know in the comments below! Comments here are far better than social media, as I\u2019ll actually see them. And thanks for reading this far.<\/p>\n

All the best to you and yours,<\/p>\n

Tim<\/p>\n

P.S<\/strong>. If you haven\u2019t already, you can subscribe to The Tim Ferriss Show<\/em> on Apple Podcasts<\/a>, Spotify<\/a>, YouTube<\/a>, or wherever you find your audio niblets.<\/p>\n

Related<\/em><\/h3>\n<\/p>\n

The Tim Ferriss Show<\/strong><\/a> <\/em>is one <\/span>of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than one billion downloads. It has been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it’s been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n

\"Profit<\/a>
<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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