{"id":11242,"date":"2025-07-26T17:59:15","date_gmt":"2025-07-26T21:59:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts-nsima-inyang-mutant-and-movement-coach-true-athleticism-at-any-age-microdosing-movement-rope-flow-as-a-key-unlock-why-sleds-and-sandba\/"},"modified":"2025-07-26T17:59:15","modified_gmt":"2025-07-26T21:59:15","slug":"the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts-nsima-inyang-mutant-and-movement-coach-true-athleticism-at-any-age-microdosing-movement-rope-flow-as-a-key-unlock-why-sleds-and-sandba","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/the-tim-ferriss-show-transcripts-nsima-inyang-mutant-and-movement-coach-true-athleticism-at-any-age-microdosing-movement-rope-flow-as-a-key-unlock-why-sleds-and-sandba\/","title":{"rendered":"The Tim Ferriss Show Transcripts: Nsima Inyang, Mutant and Movement Coach \u2014 True Athleticism at Any Age, Microdosing Movement, \u201cRope Flow\u201d as a Key Unlock, Why Sleds and Sandbags Matter, and Much More (#816)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <a href=\"https:\/\/hop.clickbank.net\/?affiliate=infohatch&amp;vendor=J1R2C\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10614 aligncenter\" src=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png\" alt=\"Profit Gen\" width=\"400\" height=\"217\" srcset=\"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png 400w, https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px-300x163.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div>\n<p>Please enjoy this transcript of <a href=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/2025\/06\/19\/nsima-inyang\/\">my interview with Nsima Inyang<\/a> (<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/nsimainyang\/?hl=en\">@nsimainyang<\/a>), a strength athlete and movement coach and co-host of <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@MarkBellsPowerProject\"><em>Mark Bell\u2019s Power Project<\/em><\/a>, one of the top fitness podcasts in the world. He is also one of the most freakishly athletic humans I\u2019ve ever met. He\u2019s a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu, a professional natural bodybuilder (placed top five in the world), and an elite-level powerlifter (750-plus-pound deadlift, etc.)\u2014but what sets him apart is how he blends all those worlds with unconventional training tools like kettlebells, maces, sandbags, and rope flow. After nearly 20 years of lifting and martial arts, Nsima has developed a unique way of helping people build muscle, move better, and stay pain-free for life.<\/p>\n<p>Nsima is also the founder of <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/thestrongerhuman.store\/\"><strong>The Stronger Human<\/strong><\/a>, a growing online community focused on strength, movement, and resilience. With hundreds of thousands following <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/nsimaInyang\">his YouTube content<\/a>, Nsima\u2019s mission is simple: help people feel powerful in their bodies again\u2014without relying solely on machines, cookie-cutter workouts, or the fitness industry\u2019s outdated rules.<\/p>\n<p>Transcripts may contain a few typos. With many episodes lasting 2+ hours, it can be difficult to catch minor errors. Enjoy!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Listen to the episode on\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/815-chris-hutchins-deal-master-helping-tim-burn-15m\/id863897795?i=1000712324040\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Apple <\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/816-nsima-inyang-mutant-and-movement-coach-true\/id863897795?i=1000713434377\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">P<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/815-chris-hutchins-deal-master-helping-tim-burn-15m\/id863897795?i=1000712324040\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">odcasts<\/a>,\u00a0<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/0uHzPrzoreDeWJxBme4Cpd?si=6yhtjSm9Tl-3iQQT36kqOw\">Spotify<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/+AAKebs0IwKs\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Overcast<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/podcastaddict.com\/podcast\/2031148#\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Podcast Addict<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/pca.st\/timferriss\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Pocket Casts<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/castbox.fm\/channel\/id1059468?country=us\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Castbox<\/a>,\u00a0<a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/music.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PLuu6fDad2eJyWPm9dQfuorm2uuYHBZDCB\">YouTube Music<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/music.amazon.com\/podcasts\/9814f3cc-1dc5-4003-b816-44a8eb6bf666\/the-tim-ferriss-show\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Amazon Music<\/a>,\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.audible.com\/podcast\/The-Tim-Ferriss-Show\/B08K58QX5W\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Audible<\/a>, or on your favorite podcast platform. <a target=\"_blank\" href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/mLGqrlxofXA\">Watch the interview on YouTube<\/a>.  <\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"wp-block-tim-podcast-link-main podcast-block wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><a class=\"podcast-block__link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/816-nsima-inyang-mutant-and-movement-coach-true\/id863897795?i=1000713434377\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/apple-podcast.png?ssl=1\"\/><noscript><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/apple-podcast.png?ssl=1\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\"\/><\/noscript><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text-top\">Listen on<\/span><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text\">Apple Podcasts<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"wp-block-tim-podcast-link-main podcast-block wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><a class=\"podcast-block__link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/0uHzPrzoreDeWJxBme4Cpd?si=6yhtjSm9Tl-3iQQT36kqOw\"><img loading=\"lazy\" width=\"35\" height=\"35\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\" src=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/spotify.svg\"\/><noscript><img loading=\"lazy\" width=\"35\" height=\"35\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/spotify.svg\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\"\/><\/noscript><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text-top\">Listen on<\/span><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text\">Spotify<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"wp-block-tim-podcast-link-main podcast-block wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><a class=\"podcast-block__link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\" href=\"https:\/\/overcast.fm\/+AAKebs0IwKs\"><img loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1000\" height=\"1000\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\" src=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/overcast.svg\"\/><noscript><img loading=\"lazy\" width=\"1000\" height=\"1000\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/wp-content\/themes\/timferriss\/inc\/blocks\/podcast-link\/images\/overcast.svg\" class=\"podcast-block__link-icon\"\/><\/noscript><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text-top\">Listen on<\/span><span class=\"podcast-block__link-text\">Overcast<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<div class=\"podcast-player\">\n<div class=\"podcast-player-inner-wrap\">\n<p>Nsima Inyang, Mutant and Movement Coach \u2014 True Athleticism at Any Age, Microdosing Movement, Rope Flow as a Key Unlock, Why Sleds and Sandbags Matter, and Much More<\/p>\n<p><noscript><iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.art19.com\/shows\/58dacbdc-646e-4585-9914-19c3de11d1ba\/episodes\/f7c5565e-dbc2-4bb0-b4bd-78739c05a1b4\/embed?type=micro\" style=\"width: 100%; height: 30px; border: 0 none;\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe><\/noscript><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><em>DUE TO SOME HEADACHES IN THE PAST, PLEASE NOTE LEGAL CONDITIONS: <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>Tim Ferriss owns the copyright in and to all content in and transcripts of The Tim Ferriss Show podcast, with all rights reserved, as well as his right of publicity. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>WHAT YOU\u2019RE WELCOME TO DO:<\/em> <em>You are welcome to share the below transcript (up to 500 words but not more) in media articles (e.g., <\/em>The New York Times<em>, <\/em>LA Times<em>, <\/em>The Guardian<em>), on your personal website, in a non-commercial article or blog post (e.g., Medium), and\/or on a personal social media account for non-commercial purposes, provided that you include attribution to \u201cThe Tim Ferriss Show\u201d and link back to the tim.blog\/podcast URL. For the sake of clarity, media outlets with advertising models are permitted to use excerpts from the transcript per the above.<\/em> <\/p>\n<p><em>WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED:<\/em> <em>No one is authorized to copy any portion of the podcast content or use Tim Ferriss\u2019 name, image or likeness for any commercial purpose or use, including without limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, book summaries or synopses, or on a commercial website or social media site (e.g., Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc.) that offers or promotes your or another\u2019s products or services. For the sake of clarity, media outlets are permitted to use photos of Tim Ferriss from <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/media\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>the media room on tim.blog<\/em><\/a><em> or (obviously) license photos of Tim Ferriss from Getty Images, etc.<\/em><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n<p><strong><br \/>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Nsima, nice to see you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You too, man.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Thanks for being here in Austin.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I thought we would start with a little setting of the table, defining of terms. What on earth is powerlifting? You are an elite-level powerlifter. What does that mean? What is the sport of powerlifting, and what are your totals, and what does that even mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So the sport of powerlifting is concentrated above the three big lifts, the squat, bench, and deadlift, right? The holy grail of traditional lifts. In a meet, you have three attempts at a squat, three attempts at a bench, three attempts at a deadlift in that order. Ideally you\u2019re aiming for a nine out of nine. There\u2019s a geared powerlifting where you have suits, but that\u2019s not as popular nowadays. I did raw powerlifting. Mark Bell, who\u2019s the host of the Mark Bell\u2019s Power Project, he was a big geared lifter and then he did some raw at the end of his career.<\/p>\n<p>For what I managed to get, I think I got eight out of nine at my last meet. I got a 622 squat, a 396 bench. I wasn\u2019t credited at 405, and I never got 405. And a 755-pound deadlift. So my total was 1,758. Not on record, but my gym lifts for powerlifting, still never got the 405 bench, but I managed to squat 645 a little bit after that meet, and I believe I deadlift 775 after that meet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So you lift.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I lift. And I still like lifting, contrary to popular belief and some of the things that I\u2019ve put out. People think I don\u2019t think lifting is good for you and I don\u2019t like lifting. Lifting is good for you. You just be careful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. I was surprised how much jazzercise you do and how many celery sticks you ate at lunch. I\u2019m kidding.<\/p>\n<p>All right, so you have some bona fides, and actually I was joking earlier, it\u2019s not so much joking, reminiscing that the first time I went to Super Training Gym with Mark Bell, who\u2019s an old friend, I\u2019ve known Mark for a long time, amazing character \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 in Sacramento, I saw you doing deadlift workout, and I was just like, \u201cWhat the hell is happening over there?\u201d For people who may have gone to a gym before, maybe even have put on 45-pound plates, what are we talking in terms of numbers of plates? What does it look like when you\u2019re deadlifting your current personal best?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So at that time, I was probably deadlifting in the 700 type of realm, so working sets would be maybe five, six plates. So that\u2019s 495, 585 above for sets of triples, doubles, some singles here and there. It\u2019s a lot of weight. Not weight I\u2019m working with right now, but it\u2019s a lot of weight you\u2019re working with when you\u2019re focused on powerlifting. You\u2019re focused on moving as much weight as possible on a barbell. So yeah, it\u2019s a load.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Now, the way that I found you was through a video on YouTube. You have an excellent channel, and very thought-provoking content, and that\u2019s what grabbed me. So what was the headline of this video?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong><em>The LIE of Traditional Strength Training: Why I Moved On<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong><em>The LIE of Traditional Strength Training: Why I Moved On<\/em>. And I was like, \u201cWell, that guy looks pretty jacked. I wish I had those abs, and I wish I could tan as easily, but boy can dream. Let me at least find out what the lies are,\u201d and clicked through. It was actually sent to me by my friend Kevin Rose, and I certainly owe him a debt of gratitude for that. Maybe you can describe for listeners a video that grabbed my attention, and it was video of a man, I believe it was, with no arms and legs?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay. What is this video?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So Serge Gracovetsky is the guy who wrote <em>The Spinal Engine<\/em>, which is a book that I referenced in that video. It\u2019s a video that he showed of a man that\u2019s moving through space with no arms and no legs. And when most people think about typical human locomotion, it\u2019s thought that the arms and legs are the driver\u2019s locomotion. You swing your arms, you swing your legs forward, you move forward through space. Well, this pretty much torso is rotating through space without arms and legs, and you can see the rotation \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And he\u2019s sort of \u201cwalking,\u201d right? I mean, he\u2019s moving forward in space.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes. Yes, yes. But you see that natural figure eight rotation of the spine that\u2019s moving him through space. So in that book, <em>The Spinal Engine<\/em>, and Serge\u2019s theory of locomotion is that the spine is the driver of movement and locomotion. The rotation of the spine helps swing the arms and swing the legs through space, and for efficient human movement, you want to maintain access to that spinal engine.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And what I was getting at at that video wasn\u2019t that we shouldn\u2019t train with barbells or we shouldn\u2019t train in a neutral spine, but with the focus of traditional lifting being in the sagittal plane, usually forward and backwards or within that one plane, we are always training the neutral spine and maintaining that neutral spine through everything we do.<\/p>\n<p>So when you\u2019re doing that all the time in the gym, and there\u2019s also a lack of breathing, which we\u2019ll probably get into later, but you train this system, when you want to potentially go and transfer it into something else, you might not have as much access to that spinal engine as you used to. Over time, that can potentially degrade if you actually, maybe you never really had that, and it gets worse by training in the gym. And the examples I gave in that video is examples from sports that you see this type of training a lot in. It\u2019s powerlifting, bodybuilding, Olympic lifting.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019re talking about the sagittal plane stuff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The sagittal plane.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Now, can you just help people visualize what that means? Sagittal being like, let\u2019s just say you\u2019re standing in a very narrow hallway with walls on either side, and you\u2019re bending forward, you can extend backwards.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Divide your body in half, like in half here from the nose, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay. So you\u2019ve got a line going from your forehead down your nose, splitting your body in half.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That is the sagittal plane.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Got it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Right? So when we think of a squat, when we think of a deadlift, when we think of \u2014 a forward lunge is also still in the sagittal plane even though it\u2019s a unilateral movement, right? These are all done in a sagittal plane with a neutral spine, and these are, most of the movements you think about doing a pull-up, a push-up, right? The frontal plane divides the body in halves from front and back, so we would imagine from the head to the toe on the side of the body. That would be something like a Cossack squat, lunging to the side, a lateral lunge. Those would be the frontal plane. And the transverse plane of movement would divide the body in half from our torso, our legs down, torso up. So that would have this rotation of the spine.<\/p>\n<p>Those would be those three planes, but then we can get into other ideas of rotation, which is the things you get into with rope, et cetera. But gym movements are primarily done when people are training in the sagittal plane with a neutral spine. There isn\u2019t much flexion or rotation of the spine. You\u2019re strengthening this neutral spine, which is good, but overdoing that can degrade the ways that you want to be able to move as a human being.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And the way that can show up, I mean, this is very personal for me, and part of the reason it was very attention-grabbing is, as we\u2019ve discussed earlier today \u2014 if people want to get a good laugh, you can watch me trying rope flow and throwing around a pink kettlebell in a giant sombrero. We may link to that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I wish they made the pink kettlebell another color, because I was like, \u201cMan, this doesn\u2019t \u2014 yeah.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It was kind of perfect. It was kind of perfect. So if people want a good laugh, we\u2019ll link to that as well as our earlier movement practice. But the story that I shared with you is three years of chronic back pain. And pretty localized to low back. Who knows? I\u2019m sure there\u2019s some referral happening. But by and large, lumbar, this sort of grand central station of musculature called the quadratus lumborum, the QL, and external obliques and all this stuff. I basically get locked and spasmed in the low back, and that can be triggered in any number of ways.<\/p>\n<p>Now, on top of that, when I watched this video, it made me think back to when I was much younger and actually ran cross country, and you have that contralateral movement, right? It\u2019s like if you walk, it\u2019s like, okay, your left shoulder moves forward as your right leg and, I guess, probably hip move forward at the same time, that contralateral movement. And to emphasize that, you had video in your video, so footage in your video, showing what everyone has seen, which is someone who\u2019s done a lot of lifting who\u2019s walking down the street and they have no contralateral movement, or I shouldn\u2019t say they have no contralateral movement, but it looks like their upper bodies are frozen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s a block.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s a block. And you could potentially say, well, that person is muscle-bound, but that\u2019s not totally accurate in the sense that, correct me if I\u2019m oversimplifying this, but it seems like they are plane-bound because their movement patterns are so limited that \u2014 of course, what you train for, you\u2019re going to get more of. So they have done one piece that is maybe, let\u2019s call it necessary but not sufficient if you want athletic movement.<\/p>\n<p>And you talked about also resurrecting or improving your own running, right? And just seeing the difference and not having the expectation that I\u2019m going to become a competitive cross country runner. But for a very, very long time, and this goes back to even like 2004, 2005, when I was in Argentina doing tango. Trust me, there\u2019s a tie-in here. And a bunch of people would laugh at me and they would be like, \u201cYou have cintura de pollo,\u201d or \u201ccinta de pollo,\u201d which would be like \u201cYou have the waist of a chicken,\u201d which if you try to think of a chicken, doesn\u2019t rotate, doesn\u2019t rotate, and in tango they want you to disassociate the upper and lower body, and I had a lot of trouble with that. So they were like, \u201cYou have the waist of a chicken.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, I would like to overcome this waist of a chicken situation \u2014 and watch the video. One of the exercises you have in that video is rope flow, which I want you to talk about, but I\u2019ll give people just a teaser, which is, saw the video. I was like, \u201cLogically, this makes a lot of sense to me. Biomechanically, it makes a lot of sense.\u201d It\u2019s addressing a deficit that I have, but it\u2019s a scary deficit because when I have tried to really embrace rotation before and the sheer forces involved, very often I either overdo it even with very low dosing, and in some cases the back spasms, I\u2019m out of commission for a week or two, like I really can\u2019t sleep. And so I\u2019ve really stayed away from it.<\/p>\n<p>But you showed this rope flow, and I was actually visiting Jake Muise, who\u2019s been on this podcast. He\u2019s the CEO of Maui Nui Venison. And we went to this outdoor gym in Hawaii that they\u2019d put together for the team over there, and there was a rope. I was like, \u201cHuh, look at that. Okay, let me try it.\u201d And I felt so good after training. I mean, training\u2019s a bit of an exaggeration. After playing around with the rope. And I was like, \u201cOkay, I want to pay attention to this,\u201d right? Because when I was really young, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s do some metabolic conditioning,\u201d like if I\u2019m not puking into a bucket, I didn\u2019t train properly or hard enough. But then I started training with people like Jerzy Gregorek, who we spoke about, amazing world record holder in Olympic weightlifting, at least he was, masters, and other folks where you actually can feel better after the workout than you did beforehand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So what is this rope flow as an example, and how does it demonstrate or develop the kind of stuff that we\u2019re alluding to?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019m really happy that David Weck, he\u2019s the guy who started, invented rope flow. He has \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>The progenitor.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The progenitor. That\u2019s on air, David. Go in and clip that, David. He\u2019s going to love that. He\u2019s the one who developed, popularized, that got the moves going. I mean, he came onto our show and he showed these videos back in like these 2006, 2005-style videos of him doing rope flow on like a roof in, I don\u2019t know, San Jose or something, or San Diego, and he came and he showed it to us maybe \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>On a roof.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ll bookmark that for later, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019ve got to send it to you. David\u2019s a character. He\u2019s great. And I\u2019ve learned so much from him, by the way. I love that guy. Continuing to learn from him, too. But back to rope flow. He came and showed it to us maybe four years ago. And when he mentioned it initially, I think sometimes when you have a certain amount of experience in training or whatever, you hear something new and you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, trendy,\u201d or, \u201cWhat\u2019s swinging a rope through space really going to do for you?\u201d But through having so many people and talking to and learning from so many people that have changed the way I move and have affected me positively \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Can I pause for one second?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Don\u2019t lose your train of thought. Because you do a lot outside of the gym, or I should say outside of the weight training gym, a very, very serious dedicated jiu-jitsu practitioner, which is not purely in the sagittal plane, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>There\u2019s a lot more going on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Jiu-jitsu for me was really fun to start. We could talk about that later. But that\u2019s the sport I started doing because I realized that all the lifting I was doing had me feeling very stiff and unathletic. So I got into jiu-jitsu about nine or 10, almost 10 years back to try to see if I could combat the way my body was feeling, which had its own issues. But rope flow, when David told me about it initially, I was apprehensive. I got a rope, I started doing it, got frustrated, dropped it, kind of like the girl in the park that we met today. You get a rope, you do it for a little bit, you don\u2019t know what to do, you drop it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How did he sell it to you? Do you remember what the pitch was?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He talked about all the benefits and he showed it. He even showed me some in the gym, him and his head coach, Chris Chamberlin. But it didn\u2019t necessarily stick because I didn\u2019t have a structure to it. So what I ended up doing was I ended up just looking at a bunch of people that I could see on YouTube, I went through some of the videos that David sent me, and I just tried to practice it a little bit each day. Frustration would set in though because the flow wasn\u2019t happening. It\u2019s called rope flow because I think people ask, \u201cAre there sets, reps, et cetera?\u201d No, you just go, you rotate, you move, you put the rope away, you go do what you do, right? It\u2019s not like a workout. It\u2019s play.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s closer to, like, slacklining.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly. It\u2019s play. It\u2019s a flow practice. But once things started clicking and I started seeing how it was affecting my jiu-jitsu, and in my jiu-jitsu, it\u2019s inherently an asymmetrical practice, the martial art. You have a dominant side and a non-dominant side, so you\u2019ll tend to do things, whether it\u2019s sweeps, whether it\u2019s takedowns, et cetera \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Guard pass.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Guard passing. You go that one direction, you grease that dominant groove, and your non-dominant side ends up being just this goofy mess, right? But I started realizing that \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s just your non-dominant side? No, I\u2019m kidding. I was saying that about myself. I\u2019m not going to spar you, no, no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>No, but seriously, but what slowly started happening was I started noticing like a scissor sweep I would really do to my right side, I\u2019m now, \u201cOoh, that left side rotation felt pretty powerful. I don\u2019t usually drill that. What happened there?\u201d Passes to my left side started feeling better. And the reason that was happening was because when doing rope flow, it\u2019s a symmetrical practice.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>You learn to rotate using your spine on your dominant side, but you get that rotation on your other side, and what happens is, as you do this back and forth, naturally you want to make your non-dominant side feel as good as your dominant. So now your rotation with your spine to the left side of your body or your non-dominant side starts to feel just as good as you\u2019re dominant and you\u2019re moving with more symmetry through everything that you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. And let me add something just with kind of beginner\u2019s eyes, now that I have a PhD in rope flow after our workout this morning.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Let\u2019s go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Well, I would just say that one of the benefits of something like rope flow from a development of symmetrical abilities perspective is that you get a lot of reps, right? Because you could do something in the gym that\u2019s aimed at symmetry, but how many reps and how many steps are you actually going to do if you\u2019re programming properly, right? And at what point is your technique going to degrade, where you might be doing more harm than good? Whereas with the rope flow, it\u2019s like it doesn\u2019t feel good, you\u2019re going to know because it\u2019s going to be janky. You might whack yourself in the ankle, whack yourself in the back of the head like I did, whereas if it feels fluid, you\u2019re going to know it feels fluid and you get a lot of reps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So you have the benefit of volume on your side in developing that water fuel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm. So there\u2019s that benefit of volume, but at its most basic level, you learn to navigate that rope, move it through space while using your spine as the main mover. You learn to do that. Initially, it\u2019s a very handsy thing, you\u2019re using your hands a lot, but then you learn to follow the weight of the rope and use your spine both sides, right? You notice if you walk after, you now have this natural swagger that starts to happen when you\u2019re walking. You\u2019re moving through space with that spinal engine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I\u2019m going to try to just paint a visual for people when they\u2019re imagining rope flow, because some people, I imagine, are not going to really have a video in their mind as we\u2019re talking. This is going to age me, but I\u2019ll try it anyway. So if you imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger, <em>Conan the Barbarian<\/em>, iconic scene with the sword, with the sword, swinging it on either side, okay, you\u2019ve got it, you\u2019ve got a sword in front, now he\u2019s swinging it to either side. Okay, now imagine instead of the sword, you have a rope that is whatever this is, an, I don\u2019t know, inch and a half, two inches thick, something like that, like a heavy-ish rope. And so now imagine you\u2019re swinging this rope around, but instead of just using your hands, let\u2019s just say you bring your hands in closer to your chest, and now you\u2019re creating that figure eight with your shoulders, and that is then swinging the blade aka the rope, right? So just imagine that kind of movement. Is that fair enough?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s fair, that\u2019s fair. And along with that, it\u2019s not just the spine, it\u2019s the weight shift of the feet, because now you\u2019re shifting from one side to the other, left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot, right? And one of the reasons why I believe it\u2019s helped so much with my jiu-jitsu, because jiu-jitsu, it\u2019s a very rotational practice when you\u2019re trying to leverage an opponent from one side or the other, is because my weight shift on both sides of my body has improved from my feet.<\/p>\n<p>So this is one of the reason why when you start to do more rope flow and you start to get more of the underhand side, the underhand practice \u2014 you\u2019ve hit a boxing bag before, right? You\u2019ve done that type of work. Go do that type of work again and do some uppercuts, do some hooks, but remember the things that you\u2019ve learned. You\u2019re learning how to generate power and rotation from the ground through your fists. There\u2019s so many people that I\u2019ve seen now that have literally said, \u201cIt\u2019s improved my punching,\u201d or, \u201cI actually know how to throw a punch because I\u2019ve learned how to swing this rope through space.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>But also like you were explaining and the underhand \u2014 oh, boy. Okay, so guys, we\u2019re talking about the Conan and the Barbarian thing. We won\u2019t belabor this. We\u2019ll obviously have some video linked if you\u2019re listening to audio. But imagine that you have the sword kind of \u2014 forget the sword. You have the rope. It is behind you, right? You\u2019re dragging a rope, let\u2019s just say, with two hands on one side. It\u2019s a thick rope. And then you pull it up and the rope is taking this sort of upward trajectory, like a diagonal. That would be, I know it\u2019s not the best description, but that would be like the underhand, whereas if you\u2019re bringing it over your shoulder like a whip or something, that would be the overhand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You went to the whip again, Tim.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What was that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You went to the whip again, Tim.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You know? You know? Yeah, it\u2019s \u2014 yeah, you know. This is why you don\u2019t go to your BDSM dungeon the night before your podcast. It just bleeds over, guys. I\u2019m sorry. All right, guilty as charged.<\/p>\n<p>So what appeals to me, and I mean, this is my enthusiasm, is outstripping my experience, that\u2019s probably the story of my life, but what the little that I\u2019ve seen of say rope flow as one tool in the toolkit, part of what appeals to me about it is that like my experience early on with Pavel and kettlebells, there is this weird like what-the-fuck transfer where people who, let\u2019s say, do a bunch of kettlebell work suddenly have better running times, and they\u2019re like, \u201cWhat? What do you mean? What the hell is going on?\u201d Right? Or because of the thicker diameter, over time they don\u2019t even realize it, but suddenly the limiting factor, which was their grip on the deadlift, has been not entirely removed, but improved dramatically, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And when I looked at the rope flow and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay.\u201d Forget about the rope, right? It\u2019s a tool for engaging these other planes of movement. And if done in, we were talking about this earlier today as well, not necessarily as an hour-long workout where you\u2019re just like dying inside, but rather like flossing your teeth or getting up and taking a shower, it\u2019s like, okay, you take a shower once a day, like rope flow once a day, and over time the adaptations that would take place. And one thing I didn\u2019t tell you, because I did confess that this is very self-serving as a meeting because I was like, \u201cI really want to dial in my programming,\u201d recognizing there are things I want to do in the future, which are not breaking powerlifting records, ain\u2019t going to happen, it\u2019s definitely not beating you in jiu-jitsu, because I\u2019ll get all of my appendages snapped off, don\u2019t need that, but \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I would never do that to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Unless \u2014 I appreciate that. It wouldn\u2019t take very much. But there are things I would really like to do. I would like to compete in more sports, even if it\u2019s just in a club capacity. I would love to get back on the tennis courts and get back to playing tennis. And this might require some elbow surgery, but get back to rock climbing. And also, one thing I didn\u2019t mention, but probably is the thing that I would tie most directly to the rope flow, I love working on pads in Muay Thai. And it is such a good workout. I\u2019m not going to get yet another goddamn concussion, I don\u2019t need any more of those, and I would really like to get to the point again where I can train on pads hard for lots of rounds with a really, really skilled trainer. I just love that experience. And I\u2019m so bored of stationary biking for my endurance work. So bored. I mean, God bless these tools, but still, it\u2019s pretty boring.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So where should we go? There are lots of tools in the toolkit. Let me ask you this for people who might be wondering, and guys, I\u2019m not getting an affiliate commission on rope sales here, like I have no dog in this fight, but it seems to be a very versatile tool, and there are lots of versatile tools, but it is also a tool that is very hard to injure yourself with. And for me, it\u2019s like weightlifting, and a lot of training, number one, unless it\u2019s a sport, is about injury minimization first and foremost.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It should be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So if I add in strength training that increases the likelihood or endurance training, that increases the likelihood of me getting injured, scratch it, it\u2019s out. And then I\u2019ll take my risks where I need and want to take my risks, like skiing, but I don\u2019t want to take it in the weight room. How long does it take for people to see some benefits from something like rope flow? And what have you seen in students and people who try this and stick with it for a couple of weeks?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm. Literally, I\u2019ve had people that are in the Stronger Human community that literally after day one they\u2019re finding that they have better balance walking up the steps, right? And these were people in their fifties and sixties. They\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m walking upstairs and I feel more balanced.\u201d Why? Because you\u2019re shifting your weight from one side to the other in a more efficient manner, because the rope has taught you how to do that. You\u2019ll feel better rather immediately. Now, the question is like how deep do you want to take it, how many of these movements do you want to learn, because I think that as a \u2014 Kelly, I\u2019ve seen Kelly Starrett start posting more about rope flow, and he\u2019s been talking about it in the form is just being a warm-up before you do any of your lifting movements, as a good rotational warm up, and that\u2019s great. So it can just be used for that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But I think there is a power that comes with the practice. When today we linked around four movements together, the overhand, the propeller, the dragon, and the underhand \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What was it called when I donkey punched myself in the back of the head with the rope? We should give that one a name. That\u2019s the Ferriss.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That should be called Ferriss. But the one thing I want to mention about this too is this. Honestly, I look at rope flow as kind of like its own internal martial art. Do you know internal martial arts?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So when it comes to internal martial arts, like I think tai chi would be considered one, bagua would be considered an internal martial art, when it comes to these martial arts, they\u2019re not necessarily external martial arts like jiu-jitsu, boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai that\u2019s based on the output, based on the damage you\u2019re going to give to an opponent. The focus is more so on breathing, mastering the movement, linking the movements together. You\u2019re more focused on what\u2019s going on internally and what your body is doing through space. Now, there are forms, like aspects of tai chi that can be applied to combat, but when you see a lot of older people doing tai chi, it\u2019s this flowing movement practice that gets the body feeling better afterwards than when it began.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And the reason why I see rope \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>In a lot of ways, just having spent a good amount of time, like in early mornings in China and so on, it\u2019s kind of like, people are going to crucify me for this, but it\u2019s kind of like Chinese yoga in a sense, like they are moving through all of these different planes of movement, they\u2019re doing it every day, and even the kind of rotational like kidney slapping stuff, there are some similarities \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 when you look at rope flow and then you look at what these 80, 90-year-olds are doing in China in the park every morning.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And they\u2019re 80 and 90, dude. That\u2019s the thing that\u2019s so amazing to me, like you\u2019re still moving like that at 80 and 90. You\u2019re independent. I would even assume that a lot of these people probably feel minimal amounts of pain. They feel a level of freedom in their bodies at that age, right? And that\u2019s kind of how I look at rope flow when you learn to link things together. So we learned a few movements today, but there are so many more movements that you learn.<\/p>\n<p>And the cool thing is that you do some of this stuff this week, Tim, you\u2019re going to wake up and it\u2019s just going to be there. You don\u2019t have to think about the movement now. You just go outside, you do it, it\u2019s no thought, right? It turns into a flow. It turns into a flow state practice, right? That\u2019s where I think the strength is. Because that feels like play. It no longer feels like a frustrating rope flow practice, although when you start learning new moves, there\u2019s a level of frustration. I still hit myself. That eye hit you did today where you knocked your eye, I do that all the time when I\u2019m learning new shit. The rope will still do that to me. Because the rope teaches you how to rotate. You\u2019ll learn how to follow its weight and it\u2019ll teach you how to rotate better by hitting you by not rotating cleanly. When you clean that up, then it rotates cleanly to the left and cleanly to the right. And then again, when you link all this stuff together, it\u2019s play. It\u2019s a flow state play that always feels better afterwards.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Now, for people listening, and for me, oftentimes when I say for people listening, it\u2019s just because I want to ask the question for myself, I am the type of person, I know myself well enough at this point, I am almost certainly not going to become the Muhammad Ali of rope flow or the Fred Astaire of rope flow. It\u2019s just not going to happen, right? What are the bread-and-butter minimum effective dose, maybe people can find this, you can point them to where they can find these things, but are there two or three movements where you\u2019re like, okay, if you were just going to do five minutes a day or 10 minutes a day, maybe it\u2019s two times five, to start your day and to end your day, what are the bread-and-butter moves where it\u2019s like, if you only did this, there would be a lot of upside?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What are those?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That would be, first off, I have a full foundations rope flow course that is free. It\u2019s like 50-plus videos of it. It\u2019s at skool.com\/thestrongerhuman. It is free, okay? Now, overhand race and chase, underhand race and chase, propeller or dragon, which is what we did today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Did I do race and chase or no?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You did, yeah. The overhand race and chase, you did the underhand race and chase.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Race and chase is walking while you\u2019re doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s not walking. You can just stand there. But you added walking into it, you added a gait pattern into it, right? So overhand race and chase, underhand race and chase, propeller, link those three together, you have a flow from side to side, right? And that\u2019s the basics, right? You learn to link those together, you\u2019ll feel better.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But again, I think that \u2014 you mentioned you\u2019re not going to become the Muhammad Ali of rope floor or whatever. But one thing that I think is good to understand is we\u2019ve got decades for this, bro. What is three to five or 10 minutes a day for a few years? How good are you going to be at this a year from now, just for five minutes? You\u2019re going to look pretty fucking good. My mom\u2019s probably listening, she didn\u2019t want me to curse.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Sorry, Mom. I\u2019m going to forget and I\u2019m going to curse myself. You can blame it on my bad influence.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But five years from now doing it, five minutes, you\u2019ll probably do it longer because you\u2019re going to naturally just get better at it, you\u2019re going to just be moving really well with this from this minimal input. Again, it can be a practice that beats you up, especially because you can get a workout from it. It doesn\u2019t have to be that. It doesn\u2019t have to be something that beats you up, but if you want to go intense with it, use a heavier rope. You can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How much do ropes cost, for people listening, because I haven\u2019t even asked that? I should have asked that. To get something you can use for this, because I do find a little bit of heft to be helpful. We started with a very lightweight, light rope, which was almost like a lariat, like a lasso. It was very small in diameter. How much does it cost to get the Magna XL?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Magnum. The Magnum XL, it\u2019s not [inaudible 00:32:16].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, exactly. How much does one of those cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think the Magma XL is \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, it\u2019s Magma.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Magma, not Magnum. No, it\u2019s Magma. Your mind wants a Magnum.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I know, I know, I know. It\u2019s like [inaudible 00:32:27].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s Magma. It\u2019s red, Magma.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Some people can\u2019t be saved. I got it, Magma. Okay, God, I screwed that up twice. Okay, Magma XL, and this probably, we were bouncing around. So probably the rope itself probably weighs like two pounds, two, three pounds.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Maybe less, all right. And how much does that cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That one\u2019s like $80, I think.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>$80.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>This is the thing though. If you want to just get yourself a rope from Home Depot and cut it and make a rope, that\u2019s fine. You can work that. You can even work with an exercise band you might have at home. You can mess with some of this using a belt if you don\u2019t want to get anything, if you just want to do the bare bones stuff. But certain ropes, like the Magma XL, the RMT rope, which I think is like 40 or $45, there\u2019s a feedback that you get from the rope because it\u2019s very smooth when you\u2019re rotating it. That feels better than a Home Depot rope. Doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t use a Home Depot rope, or a rope from a boating store. Boating store ropes are actually pretty good quality.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, I bet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Boating stores are really good quality rope, so you could get something from there, cut it up, make your rope, you\u2019re good. So that\u2019s the thing. It\u2019s a practice that if you don\u2019t want to spend anything on it, you don\u2019t have to. Or if you want to spend nothing or very minimal amounts of money, you can do that. But then all you need is your rope, some sunlight, or you can do it indoors if you want to, and you\u2019re going to feel better.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And one thing I want to stress is this. I got this from, do you know who Bill Maeda is, out of Hawaii? Have you seen his \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I have seen his videos.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, Bill\u2019s the man, man. I love Bill. And we had him on a show a few years back, and people have probably been saying this forever, but when he told me and when he started speaking this way, it really resonated with me, where he calls his workout each day, he calls it a practice. It\u2019s his practice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>For people who don\u2019t know who this is, how would you describe Bill?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He\u2019s a lifting samurai. That\u2019s how I would personally describe Bill.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How old is Bill at this point?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>55 or 56.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And that guy is unbelievably shredded and strong.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think he will be 56 this year. Strong, shredded, Bill has a level of also curiosity that I admire. Because Bill has had so much fitness experience through the years, he\u2019s done so much. He\u2019s had a lot of positive and negative experiences, but he\u2019s also someone that as much as he knows, he\u2019s continuously open to learning more and refining his knowledge and what he teaches his clients and the people he works with. And that\u2019s one thing I really admire about him because he\u2019s 50-something years old. He looks amazing. He does well, but he\u2019s also a sponge.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s something that I want to, ideally, I hope when I\u2019m 55 or 56, I want to remain a sponge. I don\u2019t want to lose that. But he calls his movement, his workouts a practice, because he changes it up each day. He does like 5, 10, 15 minutes of movement, and that\u2019s his daily practice. And that\u2019s the way I look at my movement practice. When I go into a gym, I have in my Notes app, I have just certain things that I might be doing during that day. Or I\u2019ll know what I did last week, so I\u2019ll be, okay, let\u2019s maybe add this in or do something else. But I keep things around so that I get a general daily minimum amount of movement in no matter what.<\/p>\n<p>So I have certain flow movement that I\u2019ll get in. I have a club by my desk. I have a sandbag by my workstation. I have a sandbag in my garage. I have rings in my kitchen. I have things spent throughout the house and throughout my space, so that when I go by them, I\u2019m encouraged to lift them. I\u2019m encouraged to lift the bag. I\u2019m encouraged to swing the rope. I\u2019m encouraged to swing the club. I do all these things on a daily basis, that has my body feeling better and better as I continue to progress at the meat and potatoes of what I\u2019m really trying to push forward.<\/p>\n<p>So I have these daily minimums, which is just my practice, these are just things I do. And then I\u2019ll have certain things that might be the workout, whether it\u2019s the jiu-jitsu or the thing I do in the gym or my garage, or maybe I go out to the field and I do some stuff, some extra work. But I have those daily minimums that are just part of my practice that just make sure that I\u2019m always making progress, so that the only time that I do something isn\u2019t just in my workout, I want my body to be able to do these things at any time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, for sure. And I mean that underscores also some of the stuff that I saw and you explained in the video, and you have a lot of videos, this just happens to be the one that initially caught my attention. But if someone let\u2019s just say is training the big three lifts or whatever they happen to do, and they\u2019re hitting them once a week, or who knows? And then they\u2019re not getting really any movement practice between those. It\u2019s like of course they\u2019re going to be very constrained to a certain plane of movement, certain types of movements.<\/p>\n<p>Well, let me bring this back to me. I\u2019ve been watching <em>Conan O\u2019Brien Must Go<\/em>. If people haven\u2019t seen that travel show, you should watch it, because that\u2019s basically Conan\u2019s move. So I\u2019ll copy Conan here. We were talking about this back issue that\u2019s been plaguing me, and how I am actually back to a point now as of just a few days ago where I\u2019m loading more in terms of, let\u2019s just say back squat, which is a very open question as to whether to include it or not, and other things, making a lot of progress ever since really surgically trying to focus on glute exercises, which seems self-evident.<\/p>\n<p>But I could give people a long list of stories about why that\u2019s been a challenge over the last three years, but have made progress and want to get back to, let\u2019s just say, doing five rounds of heavy work on Thai pads. And who knows, maybe even doing some jiu-jitsu, although I have a lot of PTSD from my joint injuries. So what are some of the things you would potentially suggest if you were getting me started with programming, and I\u2019m sure you\u2019d have to do an assessment and so on, but there are some of the things we talked about over lunch. We don\u2019t have to talk about these, but sandbag, box squat, recognizing that I\u2019m very apprehensive about the low back, because if I have to sit for instance on a hardwood bench for 30 minutes and I don\u2019t have any padding, my back could be seized up for a week, which means basically no sleep.<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m scared of having that experience, and I recognize that if I don\u2019t load and work on my body, not just the low back in isolation, it\u2019s never going to be fixed or improve. So how would you think about training with respect to this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay, so I\u2019d have to rewind it, and we talked a little bit about this earlier, but I\u2019d have to rewind things back to first off, the way someone breathes through the way that they move daily, every single day. Because when you injure something initially, you injure your lower back, which has happened to me many a time in the past. When something happens that aggravates the area, you tend to hold your breath. So when you bend to grab something, you\u2019ll [breathe in and hold your breath]. And then when you feel safe enough, you\u2019ll exhale and start breathing again. Some people do this without even realizing. They\u2019ll go down to tie their shoes and they have breath holds without realizing they have breath holds. It\u2019s just an ingrained movement pattern, that they bend, hold their breath, come up, boom. They get out of their car, they\u2019re holding their breath.<\/p>\n<p>Many people have instances through their day that the breath is being held. And the problem with that, the reason why that\u2019s a really big issue is because when you hold your breath, your tissues will seize up to keep everything in place. The Valsalva maneuver, when lifters lift heavy loads and sometimes not heavy loads, is meant to increase that intra-abdominal pressure so that there is no movement of the spine when you\u2019re dealing with the load. That\u2019s what it\u2019s meant to do. But also there\u2019s limited movement when you\u2019re holding your breath. So the thing that I would want to get you doing is first to make sure that you learn how to breathe while doing everything.<\/p>\n<p>That doesn\u2019t mean just breathe when you\u2019re doing everything through the house, et cetera. Even when you\u2019re going to go pick something up and you find, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to hold my breath when I do this.\u201d Can you slow that movement down in a way that you can try to breathe while doing it so that you\u2019re not ingraining that pathway of hold breath and do the thing? How can we do the thing and breathe? Because when we\u2019re breathing, the body feels safe. If you\u2019re breathing and doing stretching, or you\u2019re breathing or doing anything when it comes to movement, you move more freely. Once you hold your breath, your body goes into this time to try to stay safe. Same thing in jiu-jitsu. When a new person starts jiu-jitsu, the first thing that you have to tell them to do is breathe. You remember.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You\u2019re on bottom side control or you\u2019re in some type of position, and immediately you\u2019re like, [sounds of strain], you\u2019re trying to produce force and you\u2019re holding your breath while doing so because you don\u2019t feel safe enough to produce that force while breathing. What this is going to do is it\u2019s going to help us to get those tissues moving in the way that they should. The body\u2019s going to feel safe so those tissues are going to start moving well, and we won\u2019t have excess tension throughout the whole system. And this is why I would tell somebody with whatever lifting that they\u2019re doing right now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, tell me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Let\u2019s lower the loads that we\u2019re working with and learn how to use the breath while lifting, pushing, pulling, hinging. Let\u2019s learn to use the breath while doing all of this. What this means is when we are in our concentric phase of the lift, whether it\u2019s a push when lifting, whether it\u2019s a pull when pulling, whether it\u2019s hinging or coming up from a squat, we\u2019re exhaling. Let\u2019s just use the squat as an example rather than a bunch of things. The squat, inhale when you\u2019re going down to the hole, exhale when you\u2019re coming out of the hole. Let\u2019s learn how to do that. Because in life, if we\u2019re going to squat down to the ground, we shouldn\u2019t hold our breath when going down to the ground, but many people do.<\/p>\n<p>We should just, whether it\u2019s inhale when getting down there and then breathe normally, we should be able to do that. And what I want to try to help you do is I want you to make this a global phenomenon. So you\u2019re having very minimal or no, unless they\u2019re purposeful breath holds, you\u2019re not holding your breath during the day. There\u2019s other benefits outside of this where you\u2019re not going to feel as stressed, because a lot of people, when they are looking at their phone or they start thinking of something that brings a level of anxiety, inherently they start to hold their breath and they don\u2019t realize it.<\/p>\n<p>This is something that\u2019s going to help you get rid of global tension outside of what you\u2019re doing in the gym, which is going to help you just feel better overall. And this isn\u2019t something you deal with in just a day, this is a habit change. If you want to change the way you do this when you\u2019re lifting, you must lower your loads. You don\u2019t do this with maximal loads. You don\u2019t do this with heavy squats, heavy deadlifts. You don\u2019t do this when lifting heavy sandbags, or even kettlebells, if you\u2019re not used to this. You work on doing this with light load, and just like you progressed before with heavier loads, you progressively overload your ability to lift while breathing over time, you can progressively work with heavier and heavier load.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So assuming I\u2019m working on this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019m working on the breathing. Tim, breathe. All right. My garage is a gym. I may not have all the requisite tools at the moment, it\u2019s got all the basics. What are, whether it is me or others, but what are some of the non-negotiable exercises that you might prescribe for someone in my position, where it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, I remember back in the day, I like to consider myself pretty athletic.\u201d My enthusiasm outstrips my structural integrity on some regular occasions, and I would like to train for the long game, but also I would like to be very strong. I would like to be, for me. For me, I would like to be very strong. I still know I can develop that capacity. It\u2019s just a matter of strengthening or catering to the low back so that I\u2019m not terrified every time I set foot in the gym of having some spasm that cost me two weeks of sleep. So we were talking about, well, let me ask you a question. So back squat or no back squat?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>For you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Depends on the type of back squat we\u2019re talking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right, because we had box squats come up, and I had some questions and concerns around that. We talked about sandbags. How would you think about lower body, I guess it could be full body, but lower body loading for someone like me?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I would want you to focus a little bit more on unilateral before we do more bilateral axial spine back squat loading. So something like different forms of lunges. The ATG split squat is a really good money movement. Do you know what the ATG split squat is?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I do not know what that is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>ATG split squat is something popularized by Ben Patrick. Deep knee flexion of the front knee, the back foot has a large amount of hip extension. So you\u2019re getting hip extension of the back leg, deep knee flexion of the front leg. So you\u2019re building a level of strength through long ranges in motion with that movement. So those ATG split squats, different types of lunges. I would have you focus on that instead of the traditional actual loaded back squat for a while. I\u2019d also say that not that bilateral squatting is bad, but if you do, maybe you start learning how to do that with a sandbag. So use a kettlebell or a sandbag with that. First you need to learn how to lift a sandbag, because when you lift a sandbag, the load is in front of you. Your spine is going to be in a fairly neutral position, but you\u2019re going to have a little bit more of slight maybe flexion in that spine. And you\u2019re going to learn how to breathe against that load while squatting down with it in front of you.<\/p>\n<p>So that could be a 50, 100-pound sandbag. You\u2019ll probably start there and you\u2019ll probably move forward with that over time. But the thing is is you\u2019re not directly loading that spine right now as you\u2019re doing, you\u2019re not causing all of that compression. Not that compression is bad, but it seems as if you are a bit compression sensitive when it comes to squatting patterns because of what\u2019s going on with your back.<\/p>\n<p>Now, if you did want to work on some bilateral squatting, which I don\u2019t think is a horrible idea, I would probably say if you wanted to work with a barbell, don\u2019t squat to full deep knee flexion depth. Let\u2019s stay away from that for a while. So let\u2019s do barbell back squats to a box, making sure you\u2019re maintaining tension as you go down to the box and coming up. So you\u2019re not just plopping down to the box, sitting back, losing that tension, then coming out. You\u2019re maintaining that tension while breathing, and you\u2019re working maybe 40, 50%, 50, maybe 60% of your one rep max, where it\u2019s like you can actually master the movement without stressing about the load, but over time you can inch that load up in a safe manner.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And is the reason for that, just because this might help other people. So I injured myself three years ago doing a workout that did not feel like an injury at the time. It was back squatting, but I was basically going ass to heels, and I suspect in retrospect that I was doing like a little butt wink where I was starting to, to make it simple, just like round the lower back in the bottom ranges. And I think it was that kind of bending of the paperclip that caused that initial acute problem.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That was a real squat, bro. That\u2019s how you\u2019re supposed to, that\u2019s a real squat, bro. You don\u2019t squat ass to grass in a squat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So the box would, let\u2019s just say, would it be just above parallel, something like that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It would be above parallel right at 90 degrees.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, basically helps to mitigate the risk of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Would you do something similar with the sandbag or would you do that from the floor? What does the range of motion look like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You can squat down to to it. You could squat down to a box or you could squat all the way down with a light load if you feel comfortable. I would suggest that in your situation, you inch that down over time. Because what you could do is if you have multiple sandbags you could squat down to the other sandbag, or you could squat down to a box. And then over time lower that height where you feel comfortable. Just make sure as you\u2019re squatting down, when you hit depth, you\u2019re maintaining tension.<\/p>\n<p>When I say maintaining tension, by the way, I mean you\u2019re not totally just sitting on the box, limping out and then coming back up. You\u2019re exhaling or inhaling as you go down to the box, you\u2019re still maintaining that position, and then you drive up. You\u2019re not losing that tension that you\u2019ve created in your legs, your feet especially as you go down. You\u2019re maintaining it. So you don\u2019t lose \u2014 because the reason why people do the Valsalva maneuver is so when they hold their breath, they can maintain structural integrity of the spine, rib cage over hips, et cetera. When you\u2019re braced and you can\u2019t move, what\u2019s keeping that integrity is the air that you\u2019ve stored in your abdomen when you\u2019re squatting down.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re breathing while doing this, whether you\u2019re inhaling while you\u2019re going down and exhaling when coming up, the structural integrity is you are maintaining it. You\u2019re maintaining it while you\u2019re breathing. So when you\u2019re breathing, you do have more room for that to happen, but you should be able to maintain that structure without the breath. When I deadlifted 755, I didn\u2019t use a belt. Main reason I didn\u2019t use a belt is I wanted to make sure that my structure could deadlift this weight without the need of outside assistance. The weight belt, when you\u2019re using it, is supposed to, when you push against it, increase the amount of intra-abdominal pressure you\u2019re able to create and help you maintain that. But when I did that, the reason why I didn\u2019t use the belt is because it didn\u2019t make sense to me to develop all this strength if I couldn\u2019t do it on my own. So when now we\u2019re breathing while doing this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Very Constantine, Constantinos. Remember that guy back in the day?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>A lot of Russians did that, though, a lot of Russians would do that. But I think that there\u2019s a knowledge there, because you want to be able to do all of this stuff on your own. Yes, it can add some, but having to need to use a belt to do everything to maintain your structure I don\u2019t think is the best idea. Now, when we\u2019re using the breath, we\u2019re not getting that extra pressure that it helps create, but we\u2019re training ourselves to always be able to maintain the right structure and maintain the right amount of tension while breathing when lifting weights. And the reason why we\u2019re doing that is because life wants us to do that.<\/p>\n<p>When we\u2019re going through life, when we\u2019re fighting, we\u2019re not holding our breath. And I know that some people will say, \u201cWell, this isn\u2019t the gym. The gym is supposed to help you do this stuff better.\u201d The reason why I started doing this is because I wanted to make sure that the strength I was building in the gym would be something that would \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Transferable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Transfer really well to the fighting that I was doing and the stuff that I was trying to do. And in all of that, breath holding is never part of it. Unless swimming, there\u2019s breath holding. I think for me now when lifting something really heavy, it\u2019s an exhale. When people see me using sandbags, this is an aside, but I was always somebody who when I lifted, I purposefully wanted to stay quiet. I don\u2019t like emoting. I don\u2019t like it. It\u2019s not in my nature to be the person who goes, \u201cAh\u201d when doing stuff. But when you learn to breathe while lifting, what ends up happening is when you\u2019re creating that force, when you\u2019re lifting that sandbag off the ground, when you\u2019re pushing, that happens. You\u2019re lifting, that happens. It\u2019s not because I\u2019m trying to sound hard or tough or whatever, it\u2019s because it\u2019s like \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Like the Thai fighters kicking, same thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s what my body needs to do to produce the force efficiently and I can stay safe through it. So as that started to happen, I started to feel stronger, and it transfers. You know what I mean? So that\u2019s something that actually I think would help people understand this, especially the exhaling to create tension, is let\u2019s do this right now. I think you already understand, but I think it\u2019d serve. Growl.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Growl.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Growl. I\u2019ll do it first. Huhhhhn! Growl.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss:<\/strong> Huhhhhn!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang:<\/strong> What do you feel? Do it, just breathe. And then Huhhhrrrrrnnn!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Huhhhrrrrrnnn! I feel, there\u2019s a sort of shielding. I feel there\u2019s an abdominal contraction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There\u2019s a level of tension that\u2019s created.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That\u2019s the most noticeable thing, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But now when you exhale, when you see a fighter, that tension is created to keep this structure in place so it\u2019s safe when producing force. So this is why when I\u2019m lifting a heavy sandbag or when I\u2019m coming out of the hole of a squat or when I\u2019m dead lifting, sometimes this will come out. Because it\u2019s my breath helping me create a strong enough structure to not buckle under the load I\u2019m lifting, rather than me holding the breath. And not that again, not that this is bad. If you\u2019re a lifter and you\u2019re doing this for your maximal lifts, I\u2019m not telling you to just desert the Valsalva maneuver, but I do believe that if you learn to breathe while lifting, this is one of the fundamental things that will keep you safe while lifting, that will help you progress well, and will help you decrease the amount of stress that it has on your body over time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Okay, cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And lastly, the biggest thing I think is it\u2019ll help you get rid of excess tension that you\u2019re holding in your body when you don\u2019t need to have that tension. A lot of people deal with that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right, so let\u2019s say I\u2019m working on that. Let\u2019s say I decide box squat, going to give that a go. Maybe I have a safety squat yoke or something. Sandbag, all right. Probably do some isolateral stuff. So ATG, split squat. For somebody who\u2019s listening, let\u2019s say maybe they\u2019re in a similar boat. Or maybe their back is fine, but they want to get stronger using these movements. What type of set rep programming do you give to someone who\u2019s not an elite powerlifter?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There\u2019s no need to do anything under five or six reps if that\u2019s the case, you don\u2019t have to do that. Because over time, as you work with sets of five, six, eights, 10\u2019s, over time, you\u2019ll naturally be able to get stronger in those rep schemes with those loads. And I\u2019m not saying that heavy lifting isn\u2019t good, I do things that are three, four, five reps when I\u2019m working with heavy loads, I still do that. But the problem that happens with a lot of people when they get into a program that\u2019s focused on the load and the heaviness of the load, they start doing things they shouldn\u2019t do to lift that load.<\/p>\n<p>So if we\u2019re trying to focus on maintaining our breath, there\u2019s going to come a point where you\u2019re working with the load that you\u2019re going to find you won\u2019t be able to breathe well, you won\u2019t be able to inhale and exhale at the phases of the lift that you should be. But also, you manage to lift it and you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m strong enough for this,\u201d so you\u2019ll add on more. And then you\u2019ll get to a place where you\u2019re holding your breath, and then you\u2019ll get to the place where all the times that anything\u2019s really happened for me has been when I was creating a little bit too much tension. I was holding my breath and something happens, not when I was breathing with it. So that\u2019s why I don\u2019t necessarily, if you\u2019re not someone who\u2019s powerlifting, and if you\u2019re in the gym, you\u2019re just wanting to lift and get stronger, so I don\u2019t want you to focus on the weight on the bar. I want you to focus on the quality of the movement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, I\u2019m by myself in my garage, so I definitely have no one to impress. So what would you suggest then? Would it be two, three sets of blank with X number of minutes in between? Because we were chatting a little bit, and this is nothing obviously compared to what you do, but when I was my strongest back in the day, which was probably \u201996 when I was in China of all places, I was doing sets of, let\u2019s just call it six to 10, but closer to six in pretty much all movements with five to 10 minute rests. I was taking really long rest intervals. And generally hitting, it was split push, pull legs, and I was hitting each of those workouts once a week roughly. What would you prescribe as a starting point for me with sets and reps, and rest intervals and things like that? Any thoughts on how to approach it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Two to three sets per movement. I like people doing things for sets of\u2026 Not sets, reps\u2014six, 10, 12. I would say doing that kind of rep scheme. So what I would do is on certain days, if you\u2019re doing two times a week in the gym, one of those days, have your movements doing maybe sets of six or so, and I would also split it up like this too. When I lift, I do upper and lower body. I don\u2019t just break it up into a push, pull, whatever, I do full body stuff. So if you\u2019re doing upper and lower on a certain day, for one day for your upper body movements, if you\u2019re doing sets of six or so, do sets of 10. Yeah, sets of 10 on your lower body, eight to 10 higher up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay. So this day, let\u2019s just say it\u2019s Monday.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Upper body would be six rep sets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Six rep sets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Lower body would be 10.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Higher up 10, 12 sets. Yeah. 12 reps per set. On another day, if you\u2019re doing a full body day again, I would say for the upper body, that would now be higher repetitions and your lower body would be lower repetitions. Right? If you\u2019re doing two full-body days. Now, I think you said you\u2019re doing push-pull \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Legs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Legs. Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I\u2019m not married to that. It\u2019s just easy for me to remember.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>This is the thing. There\u2019s so many ways to set things up, but for minimum effective dose, if you can do each body part twice per week, which you can probably do in two to three training days, it doesn\u2019t have to be a five-day week split. Literally, you can do all this two or three days in the gym. For two days, that\u2019s how I would split it up. For three days, you get a little bit more leeway with volume, and three days is nice because if you, for example, on your first day, if you find that you do better having slightly lower amounts of movements, then you can split that volume into three separate days rather than having that volume in two days instead. Does that make sense?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Can you give me an example?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So, if you did five upper body movements and five lower body movements on one day, and then day two you did five lower and five upper, right? If you\u2019re finding that that\u2019s too much for you to do in a two-day period, you could take some of that \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, that would be too much for me. I, for whatever reason, handle volume very poorly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Split some of that volume. Instead of just totally taking down that workload, split that workload into three days. So then you\u2019re doing, what is it? We just mentioned 20 total sets. Do six sets, six sets, and then on another day, it\u2019s going to be eight sets of that movement. You split that volumes three days, you\u2019re good, right? But you can still do that rep scheme where you hit each body part twice a week. You manage to do some slightly lower repetition, some slightly higher repetition. You\u2019re good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yep. Got it. Okay. And then what about rest between sets?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s variable because some people like to have actual rest between sets, but then you can also, if you\u2019re doing on a certain day, let\u2019s say for your upper body movements that you do some push and some pull, you could superset those because they\u2019re antagonistic. So when I say antagonistic, instead of resting, you would do a pushing movement. Then you could literally just, let\u2019s say you do a push, then you do a row. You could do that back to back because the recovery of each movement doesn\u2019t necessarily get too much in the way of each other.<\/p>\n<p>There will be some stress from the weight you did in that specific first set, but the muscles being worked when you\u2019re doing that push movement do not get as much in the way as the muscles you\u2019re doing work in the pull movement. So you could rest if you wanted to, but you could also superset it. And one thing that I think, a concept that I want people to take from this because I know how people love to have that specific program that they do, which is good, but learn to add an element of play into this. Learn to have an element of freedom into this.<\/p>\n<p>So if you feel like you want to rest or a minute or two in between a set, rest, if you feel like you want to superset, superset, because again, I think that when you start, you can get very specific with it, but when you start making too many stringent rules within it, it becomes too \u2014 it can for some people become quite daunting and monotonous. So something that I do is when I\u2019m doing a squat, I\u2019ll sometimes do some rope flow in between just to get some rotation \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Let me ask you this. Just to stand in for the audience here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Do you think you could have gotten away with that earlier in your training? Have you laid such an incredible foundation of strict, maybe monotonous training, that now, I mean, you\u2019re like, okay, this body\u2019s not really going anywhere. So if I want to do some Sudoku in between my overhead presses and do some rope flow over here, maybe a little pantomiming in between this set and that set, that you can get away with it in a way that might not serve a beginner or intermediate. Or am I off base there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So the reason, let me mention the reason why I do rope flow in between, it\u2019s not because it\u2019s part of a workout. It\u2019s because it helps me feel better. When I put so much compression on myself, there\u2019s a level of \u2014 for me, there\u2019s a level of stiffness that I feel from that set. The reason why I do the rope flow is to help me kind of undo that stiffness before my next set. That\u2019s the reason why I do it. I don\u2019t do it because it\u2019s a super efficient part of the workout, but I do it because it helps me feel better for the next set I\u2019m about to do. When I do a lot, and other people notice this too, but when you do a lot of compressive things back to back, you start to kind of feel this lower back tension and stiffness and this overall stiffness that you\u2019re creating for the workout.<\/p>\n<p>The stiffness isn\u2019t necessarily a bad thing if you have something, especially, you don\u2019t have to do rope flow in between sets too. You do that post-workout or later, that will be something that really will help you feel better. But the thing is, when you only do that, you then walk around with that stiffness that you\u2019ve created and you have nothing to undo it. This is one of the reasons why a lot of people will work out, then after their workout, they\u2019ll do dead hangs because they feel like, oh, I\u2019m getting this decompression in my spine from everything, and that can feel better.<\/p>\n<p>But the thing is you can get that same decompression from the rope. You could get the same type of decompression from swimming. Swimming does the same thing. But the reason why I was saying all of this is have a structure to what you do, but allow yourself to kind of add things to it or subtract things to it when you want. Because the only thing that\u2019s going to help you get bigger and stronger is progressive overload over a long period of time. It\u2019s not going to be the magic set and rep scheme that you\u2019re doing right now. It\u2019s going to be what you\u2019re doing being progressed over years.<\/p>\n<p>And for people listening, because I think one criticism that I get a lot is like, you didn\u2019t get this big from rope flow. Nah, I didn\u2019t get this big from rope flow. But at the same time, I could have gotten this big while feeling better for years if I had the other practices that I do, like the rope, the clubs, the kettlebells, if I had those practices included, it\u2019s not about getting big, it\u2019s about gaining strength and muscle, but moving well throughout the whole process, not focusing on the way you look, but moving like a fridge and feeling like you\u2019re old, that\u2019s not the goal. I mean, I don\u2019t think anyone sets out to gain muscle and strength with also the goal of feeling like they\u2019re 80 years old. No one wants that, but that\u2019s where a lot of people are, and a lot of people will kind of just, they\u2019ll assume that that\u2019s part of the process \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And doesn\u2019t need to be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 and doesn\u2019t need to be at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, you definitely need to hang out with Jerzy. You\u2019ll enjoy hanging out with Jerzy and Anjala.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019m excited. No, from what you told me about him, I\u2019m going to like him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, you guys will get a kick out of each other and because, for instance, Jerzy, he also does decompression but usually hanging upside down and like \u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>In boots?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Boots. But he does some really heavy weights. He\u2019ll hold onto a hundred pounds in addition to hanging upside down. Anyway, he\u2019s got his own approach to things for very, very short duration, five to 10 seconds. But I think you\u2019ll find a lot of his stuff thought-provoking. But he is all about movement, and he gauges, he tracks everything meticulously with his trainees, but he\u2019ll also look at their gait, and he\u2019s like, I want to get you to the point where you walk like a dancer.<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s like, that\u2019s definitely one of his explicit goals is watch gait and movement in that way. And when I told him that I was doing, and I think there\u2019s a place for this, I\u2019m going to continue to do it, but I was doing biking for exercise, and what his thoughts were, and he was like, \u201cTerrible.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cThat\u2019s stupid. So stupid.\u201d And Jerzy, I know I\u2019m paraphrasing here, but he was like, \u201cIf you want to ride a bike because it\u2019s fun to ride from point A to point B,\u201d he\u2019s like, \u201cGreat.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cIf you want to ride for 50 miles because you enjoy it, great.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cIf you\u2019re doing it though as this monotonous punishment and training,\u201d he\u2019s like, \u201cTerrible.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cDon\u2019t do that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I want to mention, don\u2019t lose your train of thought, but I think that\u2019s what he\u2019s mentioning there in terms of relation to gait, it\u2019s a very smart way to try to think about some of your training. Because when a lot of people think about the squat, when a lot of people get their feet set, they usually have their feet out at an angle. Most people \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Slightly pointed out toes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Slightly pointed out, slightly pointed out toes. You\u2019re creating this force upward with that barbell. So you\u2019re learning how to have force coming from the ground through, but you\u2019re just going straight up and down. Now, the thing to think about, and the reason why I mentioned this is when you do watch a lot of people that develop those capacities and a lot of them walk through space, it\u2019s almost like they\u2019re walking in a squat position with their feet. They\u2019re walking with their feet out like this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, they got a Charlie Chaplin-esque.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. The thing is, you\u2019ll see some pro NBA players walking like this. You see a lot of that, right? I\u2019m not going to necessarily say that that\u2019s bad, but what I\u2019m going to say is over time I used to kind of walk like that, but as I started thinking about what my feet were doing during everything I was doing and I started thinking about doing certain exercises that would potentially improve my gait over time, now my feet face forward when I walk. And I\u2019m not intentionally doing this. It\u2019s just my directionality through space is now forward. I\u2019m not fighting myself trying to navigate forward with feet that are outwards. That\u2019s not efficient.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not saying everybody needs to walk with their toes forward, but I\u2019m saying when you start thinking about ways to adjust your gait with your movement, so this could be the bilateral movements like the ATG split squat, that could be using a sled. I think sleds are super powerful, and the unfortunate thing is not everyone has access to a sled, but that is literal forward and backward force production. When you\u2019re pushing a sled, there\u2019s this force that you\u2019re learning how to push forward, but you need to have your feet moving you forward too. So you\u2019re learning over time how to push a weight forward through space. I think they\u2019re super powerful, not just for developing structural strength, but also improving one\u2019s gait over time.<\/p>\n<p>The way you walk will change, and the rope will help with that too, but that\u2019s something to think about. I don\u2019t think most people should be walking with their feet ducked out. And I used to walk like that because sumo deadlifting, the feet are here. I\u2019m producing force from a foot position like this. Squatting, I\u2019m producing force from a foot position like this. Now when I go and do other things, that\u2019s the way I move through space, and that\u2019s not efficient.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So, just because I\u2019m curious and at least long ago found a lot of dividends from doing sumo deadlifts \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. They\u2019re not bad, by the way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Recommendations for sumo deadlifts. Any thoughts on common mistakes, tips, principles that you\u2019ve refined over time where you\u2019re like, okay, here\u2019s some of my pre-flight checklist that might be helpful to people. And could you just describe, it\u2019s called sumo deadlift, right? Because it\u2019s a deadlift. You\u2019re pulling a barbell loaded with plates off the ground, but your legs are wide, right? Your hands are in between your legs going down to grab the barbell. So you look like a Yokozuna squatting down and getting ready to do the whole sumo thing, hence the name. What recommendations might you have for people who are hoping to improve their sumo deadlift?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There\u2019s this funny thing within the powerlifting community where there are powerlifters who are like, they look at the sumo deadlift and they say, \u201cThat\u2019s not a real deadlift. That\u2019s not a conventional deadlift.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Conventional deadlift would be like knees inside the arms, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. And it\u2019s just so funny to me. We had Colton Engelbrecht, an aside, Colton Engelbrecht. <strong><br \/><\/strong><br \/>He has the highest total ever in powerlifting of around, I think I\u2019m going to butcher this, but I think it\u2019s like 2650, right? At two \u2014 I think he was 275 when he did this. So he wasn\u2019t even at the heaviest weight class. He was 275 at 22 years old. He\u2019s been powerlifting for three years. Highest total ever.<strong><br \/><\/strong><br \/>So he squatted 470 kilograms, 260 kilogram bench, 470 kilogram deadlift on an eight or nine day. So he squatted and deadlifted 1,036 pounds in the same meet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>At 22.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>At the ripe old age of 22 years old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Good lord.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The reason why I mentioned this \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Is this yet another reason you never stretched your street fights people? I mean, I doubt you\u2019d pick on this guy, but \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>People are getting \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You just never know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 so much stronger, so much younger. It\u2019s insane. But the reason why I\u2019m mentioning Colton is because Colton does the sumo deadlift, and some people roast him for that, and they\u2019re like, it\u2019s not conventional. It\u2019s like, whatever. But when we had him on the show, I was like, \u201cColton, why do you sumo deadlift?\u201d And he was like, \u201cIt feels more natural.\u201d And I was like, \u201cYeah, it does.\u201d It feels weird to bend down and pick up a barbell implement in the conventional way, at least for my body type. Some people with very long arms, certain length of their femur, some people feel better with conventional, but the sumo, for me, has just made more sense because you\u2019re getting down in this hip position, you\u2019re driving with your legs. It just makes more sense in my opinion.<\/p>\n<p>So, nothing against conventional, nothing against any other deadlift, but the sumo. Now, when doing the sumo deadlift, I think one thing that people really need to focus on is what their feet are doing. And I think this should be how it should be with every single lift. But when doing the sumo especially, there\u2019s a cue that people get, and people get this cue in squatting too, where you\u2019ll hear knees, push your knees outward, right? For the squat, you push your knees out so you can have space to get in between your hips when you\u2019re squatting. Sometimes your knees are too far forward. Some people with their limb lengths don\u2019t have the ability to get down to depth. So when you push your knees out, you provide room.<\/p>\n<p>The sumo deadlift, when people say push your knees out, when you push your knees out, you provide room for the barbell to ride up your body. But the other cue of rooting the feet into the ground, and I learned this cue from Kelly Starrett\u2019s book, <em>Becoming a Supple Leopard<\/em>, back in 2013.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Have you met Kelly?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Met Kelly. Yeah. We\u2019ve had him on the show a few times.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay, cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I always mention where I\u2019ve learned these things. Kelly\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Kelly\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I learned that from his book. I also learned, and the reason why I keep my face relaxed when lifting and stuff. I also learned that from his book, <em>Supple Leopard<\/em>, because when he talks about my fast release, you shouldn\u2019t have a pain face. If you relax, it\u2019s going to allow yourself to relax through these movements. But anyway, that\u2019s an aside. Rooting your feet into the ground will allow you to have external rotation of the hips.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I mean, we did a little bit of this earlier today, but just describe for people what that actually means. So you\u2019re in a gym doing a sumo deadlift, you have shoes on, presumably. What are you doing with your feet and legs?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think something that can help somebody understand this is using the hands, putting your hand on a table, and trying \u2014 you could actually do this with both hands. Keep your fingers planted in the table and try to see if you can rip the table apart while keeping your fingers where they are. Rip the table apart. Now, what do you feel when you do that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So in this case, you\u2019re sort of externally rotating your hands, even though they\u2019re not moving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Ripping that table apart, but what do you feel when you do that with your hands? That\u2019s actually, what do you feel?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What do I feel? I mean, I feel a lot of tension in my arms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You feel a lot of tension in your arms. What do you feel in your shoulder?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Shoulders have gone down and my lats are engaged. So, I mean, there\u2019s a lot going on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So, the shoulder can be compared to the hip, where the hip externally rotates as you\u2019re grabbing the ground, the shoulders will have this downward rotation when you grab.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>As I do this, I guess it depends on if we were doing a push-up, it might even be better. Right now, our arms are extended in front of us. If we were doing a push-up, what I would expect is that this eye of the elbow, the inside of the elbow, let\u2019s just call it the eye kind of when you bend your arm, it would be in that crook, would almost certainly rotate. I would imagine there would be some rotation in a push-up position.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Which would then mimic the, I guess, femur or \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly. So the reason why I wanted you to do that with your hands is I think that can help some people understand what they should be doing with their feet because \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got some meaty hands, my friend. I do not want to get slapped with those things. Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Tim. Tim.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019m just saying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Let me say this, you don\u2019t know how happy that makes me feel. Do you know why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Because you\u2019ve wanted to slap me and now it\u2019s not allowed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>No, no, no, no. Over the past, jiu-jitsu, and we\u2019re going to come back to the foot thing, but the jiu-jitsu is a martial art that has a lot to do with the hands, the grip. And I\u2019ve noticed that my hands have gotten bigger because I\u2019ve purposely started doing more hand type of work this past year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Like the rice bucket.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Like the rice bucket. I\u2019ve been doing a lot of hand work because I started, because of all the gripping in the martial arts, I started to feel pain in my fingers. And one thing you notice with a lot of high-level black belt grapplers is their fingers are kind of mangled because of everything that happens over the years. So I started doing rice bucket work and a bunch of other things, but my hands, I\u2019m happy you say that because my hands didn\u2019t used to be this meaty.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s working.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, if this jiu-jitsu or YouTube thing doesn\u2019t work out, you could go into one of those Russian slapping competitions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I would never.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, I know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I would never. No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Not worth the TBI.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>No. They would mess me up for sure. I\u2019m not strong enough for that. But the reason why I wanted people to do that on the table and feel that is because when a lot of people try to do this with the feet, they just grab the ground like this, and what you were doing in the park initially, they kind of just curl their toes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Like pinch.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Like pinch instead of pinching slightly and then ripping apart to create \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And ripping apart, just to be clear, is not straight out to the sides. It\u2019s really like a rotation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s rotational.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yes. Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And that rotation is going to allow the knees to come out for the sumo deadlift. The knees will pull out because you\u2019re getting external rotation of the hips, which will allow you room to drive the hips forward.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Let me ask you this, with the sumo deadlift, when you place your feet, let\u2019s just say straight ahead is 12 o\u2019clock, and then your toes are getting pointed out, how externally rotated are your feet to begin with? Are they as far out as you can get them and really close to the plates? Are they at 10 o\u2019clock and two o\u2019clock, and then you get that type of tearing apart external rotation? Because I\u2019m thinking \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So nowadays my feet would probably be at 11 and one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay. All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The reason why they\u2019re at 11 and one is because I have better mobility than I had in the past. So when I do create that torsion I have more hip mobility to create when I\u2019m moving outwards. Some people who don\u2019t have that hip mobility have to have their feet in a wider position so that they can create enough width to have their knees not be in the way of the bar. So that\u2019s totally dependent on one\u2019s hip mobility.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Hip mobility.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But when you get more hip mobility when you\u2019re creating that torsion, your feet angle will change slightly for how comfortable you are in the position. So whatever position you have right now, there\u2019s a golden position for the level of mobility you currently have, and as that mobility improves and as your ability to create more force improves, that position will adjust.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How close to the plates are your toes?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>My toes? Oh, no. Yeah, my toes aren\u2019t \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How wide is your stance is another way to put it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s like 90 degrees. So when I say 90 degrees, I mean my legs are out and my feet are, or my knees are right below my femurs, so I don\u2019t have this. You see a lot of people where they almost have this triangle angle with their feet. I have a box. That\u2019s the structure I\u2019m creating.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>In the bottom position, you\u2019re saying?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>In the bottom position. Yeah, in the bottom position, it\u2019s like boom, boom. It\u2019s like a \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>From knee to ankle is perpendicular to the ground.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>From knee to ankle is perpendicular. Interestingly enough, you notice like an Ed Coan, he had this outward, you\u2019ll notice he kind of was \u2014 his feet were closer together in his sumo deadlift, and he was a crazy sumo deadlifter, but that\u2019s where he found he was able to create the most force.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What was his crazy, record-setting deadlift? Some insane number. What was it? 970 at 220 or something?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, let\u2019s put it on screen. Ed Coan\u2019s had a lot of records.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, he\u2019s had a lot of records. I remember getting this book, I\u2019m blanking on the author\u2019s name, but it was like <em>Ed Coan the Man, the Myth, the Method<\/em>, which was a great book, and there was a photo. You want to talk about people who were well-built for their sport. You look at Michael Phelps, you\u2019re like, okay, I could swim my whole life. My body doesn\u2019t look like that guy. His ankles are funny and he is just perfectly built for the sport. And there was a photo, I don\u2019t know if it was Wilt Chamberlain or some NBA player who\u2019s like 10 foot 10, and he\u2019s next to Ed Coan, who\u2019s not 10 foot 10. He\u2019s like five foot five. And they put their hands together and they were the same size. And I was like, man, oh, man. You could not design from scratch a better body for this exact lift.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Have you ever met Ed Coan?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think I have met Ed. We\u2019ve had conversations before, but no, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve met him in person, actually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay. Ed is a literal mutant to this day. The last time I saw him in person was a few years ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I mean, is it fair to say, I mean, one of the greatest powerlifters, if not the greatest of all time?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Still the greatest powerlifter of all time. I would say he\u2019s still the greatest powerlifter of all time. I think he popularized his sport so much. He got so many people into powerlifting. He inspired so many of the greatest powerlifters and minds, or minds in powerlifting to this day that I don\u2019t think no matter what anybody else does in powerlifting, I think Ed Coan is probably still the greatest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And then from there it\u2019s like, well, who has the highest total in that? You know what I mean? And going back to Ed\u2019s structure, first off, his hands are huge. I shook his hand and his hand engulfed my hand, me being so much taller, it\u2019s like he ate my hand with his and made me feel so small. The second thing is the length of his arms. Ed has these \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>His ape index must be off the charts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He has these orangutan arms, bro, where it\u2019s like, when you look at his sumo deadlift form, it kind of makes some sense with how easy \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>He doesn\u2019t have to have the legs super wide.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He doesn\u2019t. He doesn\u2019t, right? So one of the things about the sumo, and one of the things about lifting in general, is finding the best position for your anatomical leverages. So not everyone\u2019s going to squat with their \u2014 some people, for example, a Kelly Starrett, a lot of the time he was squatting with his feet pointed straight forward creating that torsion. But you look at his limb lengths, he could be really good for that.<\/p>\n<p>Some people, if they have a longer torso, sometimes that position doesn\u2019t do well for them because as they head down into the hole, their body folds. So some of them need to have a much wider stance so that when they head down into the hole, they don\u2019t have this massive folding of their torso. So what\u2019s one of the cool things with lifting where you\u2019ll see someone like an Olympic lifter with beautiful mechanics, but then you also really have to pay attention to the way this person is built, and you have to find the best way to move that way through space with your leverages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, totally. Makes me think of one of my buddies, amazing striker. Used to compete at very high level, and I mean, he is gangly as fuck, right? And that was part of the problem because he would be a foot taller or he would have eight inches of additional reach on people, so he would just pummel the hell out of people in the same weight class. But there\u2019s certain movements. You want that guy to do bench press? You\u2019re going to come away with the misperception that he is weak, right? It\u2019s like, no, maybe with that particular movement, sure, it\u2019s not very well-built for his dimensions, but let him throw a power jab at your face. Yeah, he is well-built for that. Just different body types.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Let me add this in because I think this is something that can maybe give some people something to explore when it comes to their deadlift movement. When it comes to deadlifting, the things that we think about is the conventional deadlift, the sumo deadlift. Well, you could also attempt doing a staggered stance deadlift. So a staggered stance deadlift would mean there\u2019s one foot ahead, one foot behind, the foot behind has the heel elevated slightly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Like a kickstand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Like a kickstand. Exactly. Kickstand. It could be called kickstand, staggered stance, deadlift. Deadlifting that way. You could use either a straight bar, you could use a trap bar. The concept still holds true, but the reason why I have enjoyed progressing that staggered stance deadlift, and I use a trap bar when I do that, is just because, for me, it feels as if it relates to gait a little bit better than the standard deadlifts do. Doesn\u2019t mean you shouldn\u2019t do the standard sumo or conventional, but when I\u2019m thinking about creating upward force, how would I jump off of the ground?<\/p>\n<p>When I think about that and then I think about, okay, transferring that to a barbell, I wouldn\u2019t necessarily jump off of the ground in the stance that I\u2019m using in sumo or conventional. I would do it in this kind of staggered kickstand stance and then pop off. If I were trying to actually create force upwards, that\u2019s how I would do it. And I think that that would be worth one\u2019s time to progress. You\u2019re not going to lift as much weight initially, but over time, you can build up some, I don\u2019t even like saying this because I don\u2019t want people to think of it in terms of numbers. I want people to think about the movement, but you can get very strong doing that. And then, you\u2019re also strong in the stance that can relate to how you\u2019ll actually move yourself through space, but now you\u2019re creating force with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What are some exercises that you think, I know this is such a maybe trite question, but just really incredible bang-for-the-buck exercises, and for instance, for me, and I\u2019m not saying I\u2019m any paragon of exercise expertise, but like the two-handed kettlebell swing, it seems like you get so much from that exercise performed consistently with progressive resistance, whether that\u2019s in terms of loading through higher volume or increasing the weight. I mean, it is just remarkable how much I get out of that exercise even once or twice a week. It\u2019s just astonishing to me. Continually. Anything else that you would throw into that type of category that come to mind with the condition that you can get somebody to the point where they can perform them safely, reasonably quickly?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. I think everyone should own a sandbag because picking up a sandbag off of the ground, starting light. So you get yourself, let\u2019s say you get a 75-pound bag, you fill it up to 50 pounds, you get yourself to lifting that without any type of discomfort. And one of the reasons why I think that is so beneficial and so useful is the way that one will bend down to pick up a sandbag. Because when you bend down to pick up a barbell, it\u2019s this implement that\u2019s perfectly symmetrical. The only way that the hands are involved or when they\u2019re gripping like this, right? You have to get yourself in this neutral position, you hinge forward. It teaches you how to be a perfect hinge, a perfect lever.<\/p>\n<p>But whenever you lift a sandbag, every sandbag lift has its own \u2014 it\u2019s never the same because of the nature of the implement. It\u2019s this shapely thing that you have to, first off, you have this open palm grip, you have to grip around it, and then you have to organize your body to lift it safely. Anybody can lift a sandbag safely while breathing. Over time, you increase the weight. But I think that if people learn to lift sandbags well, that will be something that will actually prepare you to lift well for life because your spine isn\u2019t in this perfect neutral position as you\u2019re doing it. There\u2019s slight curvature, and you learn that it is safe to lift something with some slight rounding of the spine.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, with a barbell, you don\u2019t do that often unless you\u2019re doing something like a Jefferson curl, which I think they\u2019re pretty solid, especially if you don\u2019t load them to a crazy extent as you\u2019re progressing it, because some people get focused on the load. By the way, what a Jefferson curl is it\u2019s a purposeful rounding of the spine to lift a barbell off the ground. It\u2019s actually the antithesis of, I think I\u2019m using the word antithesis correct, but it\u2019s the opposite of what you\u2019re taught to do when you deadlift to create a neutral spine. You\u2019re literally rounding your back to lift the barbell off the ground. It sounds like a joke, but it\u2019s to ingrain in your body that my spine is okay getting to this position, lifting something. But I think a sandbag would be money for people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And just for clarity, are you picking it up and then dropping it, and then picking it up and dropping it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. A base thing that you could do is literally pick it up to around your stomach, bring it back down to the ground. You can either drop it or you can lower it back down to the ground. Then there are progressions where now you pick it up, launch it up to your shoulder, bring it down back to the ground. So you could drop it or you can bring it slowly back down to the ground. And then you could pick it up, throw it over your shoulder, pick it up, throw it over the opposite shoulder. It\u2019s inherently a rotational throw when you become adept with it, right? So there are progressions, but the base progression would be literally just \u2014 the first thing you would do is you would just do a sandbag deadlift, then you would do a lift to the stomach, then you would do a lift to the shoulder, then you could do a throw.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And then there\u2019s a bunch of things, you could do squats, you could do split squats, you could do Cossack squats, you could do lunges.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Cossack squats is another one. Typically, I\u2019ve just done that with kind of a goblet squat type of hold on a kettlebell, but just remarkable how much you get out of that exercise as you slowly \u2014 and what was wild about it to me, what a funny name, number one, but is I was using it as a warm-up for some acrobatic stuff that I was doing way back in the day. And I was just using it as a warm-up. But I noticed I was getting stronger.<\/p>\n<p>And so I started adding a little bit of weight, a little bit of weight, and I got to the point where I was doing Cossack squats, and it\u2019s not like this isn\u2019t a ton of weight, but it\u2019s like with a, I don\u2019t know, 70 or 80-pound kettlebell. And again, the transfer, I was just like, \u201cWow,\u201d I wasn\u2019t even treating this as part of my workout. But just over time, because I was doing the acrobatic stuff very regularly, so I was like never doing it to exhaustion, just that \u201cgreasing the groove.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhat the hell is going on here?\u201d It\u2019s just remarkable how much it had transferred.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s a money movement. So I mentioned all those movements because these are all things that you could do throughout the day with a sandbag that you keep by your desk. You could do squats, you could do some quick lunges, you could bring it up to your shoulder. You could do some quick Cossack squats. You could do a reverse lift. You could literally do all these movements with a sandbag \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Are you just bear-hugging the Cossack when you\u2019re doing the Cossack?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, you \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Bear-hugging the sandbag, rather.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 you can keep it right there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And then you go into a Cossack squat position. Yes, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And with the Cossack squat specifically, it\u2019s particularly powerful because most people, when it comes to training the adductors, they mainly do that with the machine in the gym.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, so adductors, guys, are inside of your thighs. I mean, that\u2019s very super \u2014 like Suzanne Somers, thigh master, that\u2019s adductors, right? So if you were trying to pop a ball between your knees using your adductors.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There\u2019s a very shady side of the internet of women popping watermelons with their adductors.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. That\u2019s \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I thought I\u2019d seen it all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You haven\u2019t until you see that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>This is going to be the headline for your episode.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But if you want the strength to do that, right, Cossack squats are going to be great. There are more specific adductor movements like the Copenhagen plank.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying most people who train their adductors are using \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Only using \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 one of those machines.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>If they ever use that machine, sparsely, they use that sparsely typically. And that ends up being a very weak link. So one thing that I\u2019ve noticed in \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Now, just for people who might wonder, because those machines are very popular. They\u2019re usually monopolized by any \u2014 not to paint them with a broad brush, but a few women are just sitting on there for hours it seems, working this stuff, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Why is that a weak link compared to doing something like a Cossack squad or something else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Because you never \u2014 you do get some tension on those tissues when you\u2019re doing a typical squat, but not an insane amount. When you\u2019re doing a sumo deadlift you also get some tension on that area, but not as much as when you\u2019re isolating it at a bilateral fashion with the Cossack squad. Along with that, in the Cossack squad you get more length of those tissues when you get to depth of the Cossack squat than you would \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ll give another \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 bad visual for people. So people are like, \u201cWhat the hell are they talking about Cossack squad?\u201d So imagine the most stereotypical, Russian dancer, arms folded, kicking out from side to side, and then freeze-frame, on the ground, where one leg is fully extended to one side and he or she\u2019s basically squatting ass to the other heel on the other side. Okay, Cossack squad, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah. And one thing I find interesting about that is for a long time I was really trying to get good at Cossack squats, and it wasn\u2019t until I was allowing myself to breathe when I got down to that position that I actually got there safely and came out. So \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What have you found most effective for improving ankle mobility, right? Because for a lot of people, if they try to do a Cossack squad \u2014 well, do you have heel up or heel down, I guess?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Heel down.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Heel down. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I have heel down. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So for a lot of folks, if they try to do that, they\u2019re going to fall backwards if they don\u2019t have the ankle mobility, right, if the knee can\u2019t travel kind of over the toes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Any thoughts on developing that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think that a great conversation for you would be Ben Patrick too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay. All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Because what I\u2019m going to tell you \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Literally knees over toes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>What I\u2019m going to tell you is this is why I find that I\u2019ve been so lucky to learn from so many people, because the only reason why I\u2019m able to first have the level of mobility I do is because of a lot of things that I\u2019ve learned from these different people. So, for example, the ankle mobility you\u2019re talking about right there, some things that helped with that were the ATG split squat that I was telling you about, which is a movement that, again, he popularized. But that front leg \u2014 I hope that when this podcast comes out, maybe there\u2019s an image of an ATG split squat that can be pulled up so people can see \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 that the front leg that\u2019s doing the split squat, over time there are regressions to that movement, by the way. So everything we\u2019ve talked about, if you find that you\u2019re not getting there, regress the movement, regress the range of motion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Tell me if I\u2019m getting it roughly right. And also, I have his ATG device that is plate loading for wrist work, extensor work, grip work, which is fantastic. What does ATG stand for?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>ATG, his company, stands for Athletic Truth Group. You think it stands for Ass to Grass.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I didn\u2019t see it coming. Okay, got it. Athletic Truth Group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Athletic Truth Group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right. Got it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. And Ben is a guy \u2014 one of the reasons why I appreciate Ben so much is because he\u2019s a very open-minded individual. You\u2019ll run across so many people in these different fitness spaces, and they\u2019re so \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Dogmatic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 dogmatic, gung-ho about their system and, \u201cIf you do this system, this is what\u2019s going to happen when you do this. It\u2019s not good. And this is what\u2019s going to happen when you do this.\u201d It\u2019s like everything is their system. But the people that I tend to really appreciate are the people that, they may have some things that they do, but they can also see the strength in many other things, right? And Ben is that type of person where \u2014 he\u2019s also someone who continues to learn. He has these \u2014 this what he\u2019s done, but Ben is continuously learning and applying new things to the people that he works with and himself and finds benefit. And it\u2019s one of those things where he\u2019s in the constant growth rather than finding the negatives of everything that everyone\u2019s doing, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>To protect his predefined fiefdom. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. So, anyway.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So let me throw out something. Tell me how close this is. So there is an exercise, of all places it was actually given to me by a physio in Sweden who I chanced upon. Because my back has been bothering me for so long and everybody you meet is like, \u201cOh, you got to try my friend\u2019s blah,\u201d right? Or, \u201cThis person can do this,\u201d or, \u201cYou have to try my friend, the acupuncturist.\u201d Everybody\u2019s got a suggestion, God bless them. But it ends up, after a while, you become a little tone-deaf to it, because I\u2019m like, \u201cAll right, look, I can talk to your tarot card reader and I can talk to your Qigong person. I\u2019m just not sure it\u2019s going to do anything.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But this physio ended up working with a lot of professional fighters, that\u2019s not me, and professional soccer players, and he really knew his stuff. I just lucked out. Because this drunk guy at a party was like, \u201cYou should meet my physio.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah, I\u2019m sure I should meet your physio.\u201d And then I just had a wide-open day the next day, and I was like, \u201cFuck it. All right, sure, I\u2019ll meet your physio.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And Sebastian\u2019s his name, ended up being excellent, in Stockholm. And he gave me some very basic exercises, again with the intention of remediating some of the back pain and strengthening. And one of them was elevated front foot split squats, very lightly loaded, going fully down to the bottom position where the front knee is way over the front foot toes \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s regression for the ATG split squat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 and basically ass is on the heel. Three second pause at the bottom, back up, and doing sets of six to eight basically.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s a regression for the ATG split squat. That\u2019s a regression for the flat-ground ATG split squat. And to go back to what you\u2019re asking about the ankles, why is that really good for the ankles? Do you know that the position that the ankle gets into is this deep position, right, that you can, when you own that position, you lower it to the ground. And now, when you own that position of the ankles, right, you apply that to a Cossack squat, you\u2019re able to get to full depth of Cossack because of where the knee \u2014 the knee is over the toe and you\u2019re in deep ankle dorsiflexion, right? That\u2019s how these things work, where \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, dorsiflexion, just pull your toes towards your nose.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That\u2019s dorsiflexion. And toes towards your knees. That\u2019s dorsiflexion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The thing is when you find that you don\u2019t have the mobility for a specific movement, there are so many ways to regress it. With a Cossack squat, you could do a Cossack squat with a wall behind you. So the wall can help guide you down, unloaded, wall behind, Cossack squat. You can even angle the foot outwards a little bit, to allow yourself a little bit more give with that \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You can also add some heel, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You could also add some heel. You can also put it on a box if you need to, and then slowly regress it down. And I want to mention, the concept of regression is what got me out of knee pain, is what got me out of pretty much all pain, right? But specifically I want to mention knees because when I was in my early twenties, I had a meniscectomy, partial meniscus removal. I can\u2019t remember which knee now, I think it was my left, because of something that happened in jiu-jitsu. I also, when I was younger, I had Osgood-Schlatter and I was a soccer player. So when I got into my early twenties, I couldn\u2019t sprint. I felt like I was probably going to have trash knees for the rest of my life. I couldn\u2019t run, couldn\u2019t run without pain at all.<\/p>\n<p>So, let alone run, absolutely couldn\u2019t sprint, couldn\u2019t jump, right? But I was doing squats and stuff and there was some pain I was having, so I was using knee sleeves. So I was pretty certain that, at this point I just need to make sure to keep them pretty strong. But these things like sprinting, et cetera, it\u2019s not going to be part of the system for me.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s when I came across some of Ben\u2019s stuff back in 2019 or 2018, I think, right? I came across some of his stuff on Instagram, started regressing it, doing like the simplest regression. So I had ATG splits going on a box. There\u2019s this pulse movement that you do where you just have this very small range of motion with the knee where you\u2019re just putting yourself into slight knee flexion, coming out, pulsing it, driving a lot of blood to the knee area, right? And I would progress these things over time.<\/p>\n<p>After four or so months, I was able to get into full, deep knee positions that I was never able to get into without pain before. And then, when I started doing things like running, I was able to run without pain. And then I started sprinting without pain. But it started with regression, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Bless you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So the reason why I\u2019m saying that is \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That was a very princess-like sneeze for such a large man.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I didn\u2019t want to let it out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>If I let it out, it would be disgusting. So when you hold it in, it turns into this mousy squeal. Let\u2019s keep that in there. Let\u2019s keep that in there. If I had to sneeze again, I\u2019ll show you what the big one looks like just so I can save myself, my gosh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But I say this because regressions are the name of the game for all this. If you have pain doing something, there is a way to regress it, and you need to own the regression before you progress.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I just want to underline this because when I started to get out of some \u2014 I mean, this back has been \u2014 this chronic back pain has been one of the biggest challenges of my life, because I\u2019ve always seen myself as athletic. I\u2019ve always been able to sort of take a kicking and then get back on the horse and get back to athleticism. And this experience where this pain at such a pivotal, cornerstone piece of your body is tied into every movement. When you sleep \u2014 there\u2019s no escaping it. Psychologically, physically, emotionally, it has been such a difficult experience and given me so much sympathy for people in chronic pain. It\u2019s like if you have not been in serious chronic pain it is impossible to understand what it\u2019s like until you\u2019re there.<\/p>\n<p>And I would say the one mantra of sorts that has allowed me to start digging out of that hole \u2014 and I used a different term for myself, I don\u2019t remember where I got it, but it was just like, \u201cScale it down.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Right? And it\u2019s the same idea, right? It\u2019s just like, okay \u2014 let\u2019s just say hypothetically, okay, I might need this surgery in the elbow. Okay, great. I can\u2019t do X number of push-ups. Okay, fine. Do one 10th of X number of push-ups, right? Okay. You can\u2019t do whatever it might be. Well, barbell puts too much torque in the elbow? Okay, fine, let\u2019s use dumbbells, right?<\/p>\n<p>But the rule is you can\u2019t do nothing. You have to scale it down. And maybe you omit exercises, sure. But it\u2019s like, \u201cTrain around it, train around it, train around it.\u201d And it\u2019s like, for instance, the box squat. Great example. Jerzy is like the \u2014 Jerzy Gregorek, who I keep mentioning, is the ultimate master of regressions.<\/p>\n<p>To use your word because he\u2019ll have someone, they\u2019ll do a squat and they\u2019ll go down eight inches and he\u2019s like, \u201cThat\u2019s it.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cNo, but I do below parallel in the gym.\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cYou shouldn\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, you shouldn\u2019t. Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And he\u2019s just like, \u201cOkay, your max depth is,\u201d whatever, I\u2019m making this number up, but it\u2019s like, \u201c36 inches off the ground.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s a joke.\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cThat\u2019s your assignment.\u201d He\u2019s really funny too because I remember at one point I was like, \u201cSo you\u2019re suggesting?\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m not suggesting, I am telling you.\u201d And it feels like a waste of time to start off in where he would start people, but as they develop the right mechanics and then, pain free, progress. And it takes weeks, maybe even months, to get back to where they think they should be, and then lo and behold, they\u2019re so much stronger, they own the position, all these aches and pains go away. So you can\u2019t do nothing, but you can scale it down or regress it, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And the other thing I\u2019ll mention just for people who may be in a similar position to myself where they have a lot of low back stuff, the other reason that Sebastian prescribed the front foot elevated split squat was to avoid hyperlordosis, overarching of the low back. I have a lot of thoracic mobility issues, so I tend to flare out and arch. And he was like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s mitigate that by elevating the front foot.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right, cool. Dig it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I want to mention I \u2014 Ben, he has an app, and on that app he puts all his stuff there for monthly payment for people, so if you guys are \u2014 and Ben mentions that people can do this, so I\u2019m going to mention this too. You could go on there, you could screenshot the movements, and you could cancel, literally. And I have a program there too in his martial arts section, right? And you can literally go there and you can just take it all if you want to.<\/p>\n<p>But the reason why I mentioned that is because all the regressions are right there. If you\u2019re looking for a way to regress all these movements, that\u2019s all there, right? There\u2019s also in \u2014 and that school community. But just take the regressions and be patient with those regressions, because one of the reasons that I was held back for so long was because I thought I was better than I was. I\u2019ve been playing soccer for like 16 years. I\u2019ve always seen myself as an athlete. So going to do some of these things and these simple regressions, I was just like, \u201cNo, I can move on to the last chapter. No, I should be able to.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then I\u2019d always find myself in pain. I\u2019d always find myself moving backwards. And it wasn\u2019t until I just realized, \u201cHey, be a beginner with this. Start with the regressions, own those, and then slowly progress upward.\u201d But then I was able to make all the progress to where I am now, right? So it\u2019s a big shift.<\/p>\n<p>And this is the last thing I\u2019ll mention. I think one of the reasons why this is hard for some people that lift or that have already been training for a bit is because traditional lifting is kind of easy in the sense that, if you get strong with the shoulder press, you just increase that weight, week by week. Bicep curl, increase that weight a little bit. You get this big payoff very, very quickly, then you see that weight going up. But when it comes to holistic movement in some of these ranges, you\u2019ll realize that you have some weak links that you have to work on with potentially no weight. And that\u2019s not as fun as just doing the heavy shoulder press. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Getting the payoff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. I mean, I would also say it\u2019s like you can get away \u2014 at least, I\u2019ll personalize it. I think this is true for a lot of people, but just because you can lift more weight than your friends does not mean your form is good, right? I don\u2019t think my form was the worst in the world, but we were talking about 96 when I was probably my biggest and strongest and arguably fattest, but \u2014 I wasn\u2019t that fat. But where I was doing 400 pound-ish back squats for a set of 10.<\/p>\n<p>Now, in retrospect, should I have been doing that? Probably not. And when I mentioned earlier, I was like, \u201cOh, yeah, probably three, four years ago,\u201d whenever it was in that back squat workout, when I hurt myself, I was probably going too low and having that change in the spinal position with like butt wink, and I think that probably contributed to it. And I\u2019m sure there are people out there who are like, \u201cPssh, Tim Ferriss can\u2019t even do a goddamn squat. I knew it. That guy\u2019s an idiot.\u201d What I would say is, you could be right, number one. Number two is get video of your technique and have somebody who actually knows what they\u2019re doing, like a very high-level competitor, look at that technique. And chances are it\u2019s not as good as you think it is. Do you know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And then there comes a point where it\u2019s like, all right, I\u2019ve bent the paper clip so many times, boom, I have an injury. And now it\u2019s just a wake-up call. It\u2019s like, \u201cAll right, let\u2019s start from scaling it back, from the fundamentals. Swallow my pride, take my ego down a notch, and work it back up.\u201d Which is very hard to do psychologically. Really tough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I mean, there\u2019s so many parallels that I see here. It\u2019s like with Jerzy, it\u2019s like, man, you have to check your ego at the door, because you might walk in and \u2014 he doesn\u2019t care. He really doesn\u2019t. He\u2019s so salty. You could be world champion in X, Y, and Z, and he\u2019ll be like, \u201cOkay, you\u2019re going to start with 20 pound on dumbbells.\u201d And you\u2019re like, \u201cWhat?\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cYeah,\u201d he\u2019s like, \u201c20 pound dumbbells because you shouldn\u2019t be doing this with more than 20 pound dumbbells.\u201d And people are just like, \u201cWhat?\u201d He doesn\u2019t even compute.<\/p>\n<p>But then with these micro progressions, as he would call them, it is incredible. Like I was saying to you, he had this Vietnam vet with a number of fused vertebrae who had been walking around in body brace, could not bend in any direction, got him to the point where he is doing stiff-legged deadlifts with 315 off an elevated platform.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s so crazy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And continued doing that for decades. I mean, it\u2019s unreal. And similarly \u2014 and I haven\u2019t seen this because I haven\u2019t really been doing this term in the notes that I had for this conversation, it\u2019s not my term, but I like the term, which is microdosing movement?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ve only played with that with a few things like slacklining. And it is incredible what your body can end up doing with three to five minutes a day of slackline. You do not need \u2014 in fact, one could argue you shouldn\u2019t do really long sessions. So what are some other examples of microdosing movement? Because as I get older, more and more, yes, you want to be strong. Yes, I agree with Pavel, strength is kind of the mother attribute in a lot of ways, right? Yes, you want to have muscle mass because of Sarcopenia and all this stuff as you get older. That\u2019s all true.<\/p>\n<p>And fundamentally, we are evolved as bodies to move in space. Our brains are evolved to manage that interface, right? And I find myself hungering for more and more athletic movement, right? So what are some other ways to microdose movement that might kind of produce benefits, and you can take that however you want to take it, that are surprising to folks?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Mm-hmm. So I think one of the simplest things one can do is start introducing different shapes of your spine. Primarily a shape that I think many of us are scared about, which is like spinal flexion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Spinal flexion, reaching over, touching your toes with a rounded back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly. But let me actually just rewind real quick because I want to mention, Pavel talks about \u201cgreasing the groove.\u201d I got introduced to microdosing by a friend of mine, Cory Schlesinger, I think he\u2019s like \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Just to be clear, microdosing movement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Microdosing movement. Not microdosing psilocybin, although that\u2019s fun. But microdosing movement. Cory is \u2014 I don\u2019t know if he\u2019s working with the Phoenix Suns now, but he was like the director of performance, I think, for the Suns recently, so I know he\u2019s working with an NBA team. But when he talked to us about it, he was having a lot of his NBA athletes, he would have them do a little bit of movement before games, a little bit of movement after games, and he\u2019d figure out ways for them to have movement sprinkled into their days so that they always felt good.<\/p>\n<p>Because what happens with some athletes is they have to have this extensive warmup routine to get their bodies ready. And these are athletes, by the way. So if an athlete needs this extensive warmup routine to get ready for game day, somebody who\u2019s sitting at a desk or just working or whatever, the amount of prep you might need to get ready to move is far too much. The goal of microdosing movement or \u201cgreasing the groove,\u201d as Pavel puts it, is to make it so these different movements just become a part of who you are and what you do.<\/p>\n<p>You don\u2019t need to prepare to bend your spine down into a flex pattern and pick something off the ground because you\u2019re just healthy and safe \u2014 you feel healthy and safe doing it. Now, the thing I\u2019ll also mention here is that there are many really smart people who are against some of the things like Jefferson curls. Like Stu McGill doesn\u2019t like it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, doesn\u2019t like it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Stu doesn\u2019t like it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And I would agree to the sense of people who haven\u2019t regressed the movement enough. If you just rush into something like a Jefferson curl that we were just talking about, where you have deep spinal flexion, you pick up a barbell or something off the ground, that\u2019s going to cause you some issue. Especially if you don\u2019t feel safe doing it. You\u2019re going to hold your breath, you\u2019re going to force yourself into that position, and then you\u2019ll tweak something and then you\u2019ll say, \u201cThis is a bad position or a bad movement.\u201d But when you learn to breathe through movement with no weight, right?<\/p>\n<p>So like I was talking about, let\u2019s say you decide that I\u2019m going to pick that ball off the ground a little bit a few times a day, flexing my back and going back to the ground. I\u2019m going to inhale when I go down and exhale when I go up. I\u2019m going to make myself own this movement. Doing that with no weight initially for most people is going to feel fine. And then as you improve that, you\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, can I do that with a six pound kettlebell? Can I do that with a 20 pound kettlebell? Can I do that with a 30 pound kettlebell? Can I organize my body to lift this safely in this position?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then you own that position because it\u2019s no longer foreign to you. Now you\u2019re no longer flexion intolerant. But when you\u2019re someone who has avoided these different ranges of motion with the spine, whether it\u2019s deflection, extension, et cetera, and then you go into this \u2014 into a workout, or you try doing some weighted rotational movement and then you tweak something, you think that these are bad movements or bad ranges of motion. But the thing is that you didn\u2019t regress it enough and you didn\u2019t spend time with the most basic forms of those movements.<\/p>\n<p>So when it comes to microdosing, one of the ways to make microdosing easy for you is to make your environment serve you. This is why \u2014 and some people might just think I\u2019m some fitness nut for this, but I keep equipment around my area. Around my desk, I have a kettlebell sitting there, I have a club sitting there. I have a 100 pound sandbag by my desk, by my work desk.<\/p>\n<p>I also have a gripper on the table so that if I\u2019m doing something on my \u2014 my laptop is one side, I can hit that gripper up a little bit. I have these things just sitting around to encourage me to touch them, because if they\u2019re not in front of me, I am not going to do them. All this hand stuff, you give me that compliment on my hands, bro. It\u2019s because I have grip equipment everywhere.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I cannot \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I have it in my car. I have it at my podcast desk. I have it at my work desk. I have it in the kitchen. I have it everywhere.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I can\u2019t wait for you to \u2014 I think you already saw the video, but to take another look at the Abrahangs \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 with Emil Abrahamson, because then you could just have \u2014 I mean, you could do it off the back of a set of stairs. That\u2019s what I do at home. But if you get like a hangboard \u2014 and don\u2019t overdo the hangboard people, that is the perfect way to blow apart your tendons and ligaments. Take it easy. But that\u2019s something you can sprinkle in so easily. I sprinkled that in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>My rice bucket sits in front of my TV, right? So that\u2019s the thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And just for people who are wondering what the hell we\u2019re talking about, the rice bucket, imagine old badly dubbed Chinese Kung Fu movies where they shoot \u2014 they make their hands into spears, shoot it into a bucket of rice, and turn their hands and do different movements to toughen up their hands and their grip and so on. It would be a version of that. A lot of baseball players do that too, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>They knew what they were talking about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>They knew what they were doing. A lot of this stuff isn\u2019t new. I\u2019m not making this stuff up. People who do this stuff for centuries because it works. But would I do the rice bucket if I had to pull out the bucket of rice from my garage every single time?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>No, of course not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019d have to keep it in the vicinity of something that I already do stuff, so that when I go by it, I\u2019m like, \u201cI can do this for a quick minute as we\u2019re watching something,\u201d and then go back, right? I have, for example, there\u2019s this stool called a Hunkerin Stool \u2014 by the way, you don\u2019t need a Hunkerin Stool, you could just have a low seat \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Hunkering stool?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Hunkerin, H-U-N-K-E-R-I-N, Stool. It was made \u2014 this guy\u2019s name is Kasey. He owns this company, Hunkerin Stool. It\u2019s a low springy seat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Right? People will see, if they ever watch any of my videos, you\u2019ll see me sitting on a Hunkerin Stool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, I saw one of those in one of your videos.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s a low springy seat. So now you sit down \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What do you use that for?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You just sit down in a squat position.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You sit down in a low squat position.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay, got it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So I noticed you have these low mats here that maybe people might sit on for meditation, but you have these things that will encourage you to get lower to the ground, right? So the sandbag, I also sit down on the sandbag as it\u2019s low to the ground, and that helps \u2014 that encourages me to get down in this low position, this low squat position, to become comfortable there. So now I\u2019m not uncomfortable getting down to the ground, which is an essential thing that we need. A lot of us, some of us only get down to the ground when we\u2019re doing martial arts. Some of us probably can\u2019t remember the last time we purposefully went down to the ground on our own volition. Maybe you fell, right?<\/p>\n<p>But can you become comfortable going down and coming up? Because now if maybe you do fall, it\u2019s not as much of a struggle for you to figure out the puzzle of getting off the ground. It\u2019s actually not even a puzzle. You just can\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Well, Kelly, you mentioned Kelly Starrett, who \u2014 he and I go way, way back. And we actually were in Japan together at the same time and went on this amazing trip with a group of guys. But on that trip, Kelly and I \u2014 I mean, both of us, it\u2019s kind of obvious when it\u2019s pointed out, but in Japan, if you\u2019re going to traditional inns and spending time in those types of environments, you are getting up and down all the time. And you are sitting cross-legged and you are getting up, and you\u2019re basically doing Turkish get-up light all the time, right? You are constantly getting from that sitting on the floor position to fully standing.<\/p>\n<p>And every once in a while, these are harder and harder to find, you\u2019ve got a squat toilet, and it\u2019s like, \u201cThat\u2019s it.\u201d And I remember asking one of my friends when I was 15, because I\u2019d never seen a squat toilet, it was my first time out of the US, I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat the hell is this?\u201d And I went to a baseball game and all they had was squat toilets. And I remember asking my buddy, he was 15 also, I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do your old people do?\u201d And he just started laughing, he\u2019s like, \u201cThey\u2019ve been doing it forever. They have no problem.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWow.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Can you imagine what would happen, how many ER visits and ambulances you would need if suddenly that were put in a US stadium? Forget about it. But the fact of that \u201cgreasing the groove,\u201d right? It\u2019s not like these 80-year-old Japanese people are doing tons of Jefferson curls and Turkish get-ups, but they are sitting down, getting up, sitting down, getting up, many, many times a day in a lot of cases.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And even just that aspect of sitting on the ground. Think about the position that the back gets in, the deep knee-flexion that you\u2019re getting. And many of these people can just comfortably sit in the Seiza position without a problem. The position of the ankles, the position of the knees, all these areas, when getting up and down off the ground, how healthy that is for your joints and your movement? That\u2019s why it\u2019s like, instead of thinking about all of this as exercise, how can we build our environment?<\/p>\n<p>The places where we go, even if you\u2019re at a cubicle at work, can you put certain things in there that can help you \u2014 encourage you to move a little bit more, right? If you do that, that will make a lot of this stuff so much easier because it\u2019s less about, \u201cHow do we program this?\u201d And more about, \u201cLet\u2019s just touch this a few times a day.\u201d After you become more comfortable sitting down in that low position a little bit more, picking up with that, with the rounded back, just casually picking up that sandbag. You\u2019re not doing these things while warming up. You\u2019re just doing them. They\u2019re what you do.<\/p>\n<p>Then, when you want to go progress it, it\u2019s even easier because this is just how you move. For me, it wasn\u2019t until I truly set my environment up to serve my movement ability that I started making bigger and just bigger leaps in my progress because it became less of, again, the structured workout that I have to go to the gym and do all the time to just, this is just what I do.<\/p>\n<p>I can just pick stuff up. I purposefully hung up gymnastics rings so I can develop my skill of hanging once again, right? So I have those just hanging and the TVs right there, so I\u2019ll just do some quick pull-ups and hang on it.<\/p>\n<p>I set up this environment and so it\u2019s almost like an environment of play. I have fun here, and I think if more of us did that, it would aid in our movement progression much faster than always having to go to a gym with four walls, fluorescent lights and get this workout in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Also, I\u2019ll bring up another person you would have a blast with if you haven\u2019t met him. I remember I got so much shit, it was funny. I got so much shit when \u2014 a lot of people were interested off the bat, but I also got a lot of shit when I did an episode on gymnastics strength training with a guy named Chris Sommer. Coach Chris Sommer, former coach of the national men\u2019s team in the US.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think I bought his program years back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, GST.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I remember there were a bunch of folks in various communities, I\u2019m not going to name them, but they\u2019d be pretty obvious, pretty belligerent online weightlifting communities. There\u2019s a fair number and there\u2019s like, \u201cBah ha, ha, ha. Now Tim Ferriss is into Pilates. Good luck with that. Good luck developing strength.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And I\u2019m like, let me see you do an iron cross, right? Let me see you do a planche with your feet off the ground, and then tell me that those guys or gals aren\u2019t strong. Let me see you do that. But the point that I was just going to make is it doesn\u2019t have to be with a bunch of ferns and chrome inside four walls.<\/p>\n<p>You can get so unbelievably strong, and this is going to be old news to a lot of people, but with calisthenics and doing, if you want to try it here, I\u2019ll give people something, they\u2019ll be like, \u201cOh, this is so stupid.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, try it.\u201d Do something called pike pulses.<\/p>\n<p>So, there are a lot of ways you can strengthen your core and abdominals and so on. This one, so put your feet, sit down on the floor, legs out in front of you. If you\u2019re sitting up, that is a pike, and so your feet are straight.<\/p>\n<p>Now what you\u2019re going to do is put some strength into the toes, point them. And now what you\u2019re going to do is reach forward on either side of your legs, not as far as you can go, but pretty far. You\u2019re probably going to be on your fingertips on either side of your legs.<\/p>\n<p>Now it\u2019s very simple. All you need to do is lift your legs off the ground and just pulse up, keeping your legs completely straight, quads locked, and just bring your legs off the ground, bringing your knees to your chest. Good luck with that.<\/p>\n<p>Do a couple of sets of 10 or 15 of those, and if it\u2019s too easy on the first one, bring your hands forward four or five inches. If you can do it then do it again, most people will just be murdered by that. And that is, you do not need a lot of space. You could do that in the smallest apartment right next to your bed.<\/p>\n<p>Oh, there\u2019s so many good exercises. This is really inspiring me also, to get back. I really feel like my new chapter, I have to be careful not to be too enthusiastic and hurt myself, but it\u2019s going to be a couple of fundamentals.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll probably continue to do sumo deadlift in the way that I described it a la Barry Scott who trained Alison Felix way back in the day. That was in <em>The 4-Hour Body<\/em> stuff. But the sumo deadlift with no eccentric, I just find it just transfers to so much.<\/p>\n<p>Kettlebell swings for sure. And I was very interested, people can probably find video of you doing this, but the pendulum.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, the pendulum swing with some kettlebell juggling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Haven\u2019t gotten to the juggling yet, but different types of swinging. Rope flow to get into some new planes of movement. And then I think I\u2019m going to re-explore some of the GST stuff. Because I recall doing some basic basic ring stuff. It\u2019s like, look, I\u2019m not going to win any awards here.<\/p>\n<p>And then doing this is all body weight stuff. And I got so big. People thought, they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, my God, how much heavy lifting you\u2019ve been doing?\u201d And I was like, \u201cZero.\u201d Most of this is from also because my upper arms, my biceps were the biggest they\u2019d been in probably a decade.<\/p>\n<p>And people were just like, \u201cBro, what you on gear? What\u2019s going on?\u201d I was like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m just literally doing straight arm tension. I\u2019m not even doing any flexion. I\u2019m not bending my arms. This is all ring work with fully locked arms. That\u2019s it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Dude, it\u2019s great that you mentioned this because over the years, one thing that I try to do is I try to find stuff I\u2019m interested in that I really suck at to improve at. I\u2019m 250 pounds, so for me \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You are a lot bigger in person than you\u2019re, I mean, you\u2019re big on camera. And then I was just like, \u201cHow am I going to find this guy?\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh, he\u2019s not hard to find.\u201d Those quads are the size of my office. Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But yo, man, calisthenics was something that for me, I think is a place that I\u2019m not the strong, I\u2019m not very, very strong at. Some of that can be attributed to my body weight, and I\u2019ve been so excited at just really nailing down all of these calisthenic basics to continue to improve so that I can do more complex movements.<\/p>\n<p>Because one of the things that I think that frustrated me with calisthenics years ago was like, gosh, these muscle ups, oh, I was always making excuses of my weight, but I was not strong enough with my body weight to do these things.<\/p>\n<p>So, one of the things with calisthenics is also owning those basics, push-ups, dips, pull-ups, regressing the pull-ups if pull-ups were tough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Also like regressing, like ring turnout push-ups, incredible.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ve had shoulder surgeries and stuff. The degree to which that has helped my shoulders just ring turnout push-ups.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Scapular pull-ups. The strength of the scapula I think is something that a lot of people, as they\u2019re doing calisthenics, they don\u2019t realize is so important, and there are ways to isolate the scap and strengthen that with these movements. Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, God, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I realized how weak my scapula was compared to a lot of other things. Like when I would be doing pull-ups, yes, the scapula is involved, but I wasn\u2019t focusing on it, which is why a lot of progressions were elusive to me because my scapula wasn\u2019t as strong.<\/p>\n<p>So, I\u2019m very excited progressing calisthenics, and I\u2019m more so excited for the next five years. I think that in five years, six years from now, I can be pretty elite at calisthenics and it\u2019s going to take me that long, and I\u2019m okay with that.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s a ways away. But I know that chipping away at that skill is going to be one of those things that for me, when I\u2019m 60, 70, 80 has those big maybe 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 has those big dividends. Because one thing is when you see people who are very adept with their body weight, they just have control of everything.<\/p>\n<p>They\u2019re very adept with their body weight strength, and these aren\u2019t, you can lift weights. But just because you\u2019re strong with a barbell or strong with weights does not mean you\u2019re strong with body weight. I know many heavy people that can deadlift hundreds of pounds that struggle doing 10 pull-ups because they don\u2019t have good control of their body weight.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Or just because you can lift a lot of weight in a few movements does not mean that you\u2019ve bulletproofed yourself against injury \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Nope.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 either.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly. Exactly. And calisthenics is something that will show you those weak links with your control of your body and will help you improve with that over time. And your practice of wanting to \u2014 rock climbing inherently adds the skill of calisthenics into it, so it\u2019s a two for one.<\/p>\n<p>I would love to do rock climbing, and the thing is, I do so much jiu-jitsu right now that it\u2019s like I\u2019ve got to pick between rock climbing and calisthenics. I\u2019ll focus on the calisthenics bit and maybe do rock climbing here and there, but that\u2019s a very good practice to develop that level of strength.<\/p>\n<p>Because rock climbers, man, elite ones, and even non-elite rock climbers, just the way they can contort their bodies and have the strength through their grip, through their whole body, my gosh. It\u2019s another amazing practice that\u2019s awesome for longevity. That if you\u2019re struggling to find something \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Well, that was part of, side, a knee injury this past ski season. I was super bummed and I was in a great location, but I\u2019m up in the mountains and the climbers are world class.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Oh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So I started going to a climbing gym with my ski instructor who was also a very good climber. He sets routes and he\u2019s very good, super technical. And in that gym, because we would go when I would typically want to go skiing, so let\u2019s just say in the morning. These are work days so the gym was not empty because this was a popular competitive gym.<\/p>\n<p>So, national team was there, silver medalist from the Olympics was there when we would go train, so it\u2019s amazing to watch those people, number one. But secondly, what really motivated me was, yes, sure, I just love rock climbing because it is along with jiu-jitsu, it\u2019s human chess. Those two are actually very similar in a lot of ways.<\/p>\n<p>But what I noticed in this gym in particular was these groups of mostly women, but not always, mostly women who are in their 60s and 70s who were doing stuff that I could not conceive of doing. And they do this week in, week out.<\/p>\n<p>I saw a guy and my buddy was complaining that he couldn\u2019t go climbing because of a hip issue. And I saw the 70-year-old guy with a leg brace on climbing, and I took a photo \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>70?.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. With a full leg brace. He\u2019d twisted his knee, and he\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ll just use one leg and two arms and flag with one leg.\u201d And I sent a photo to my buddy who\u2019s younger than I am. And I was like, \u201cBro, I\u2019ve got some bad news for you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And I was so inspired to see these people who are decades older than I am who are doing things that I could not even approach doing right now. And I was like, \u201cOkay, this is a good sport.\u201d This is a really good sport.<\/p>\n<p>Jiu-jitsu too, if you play it smart, just like gymnastics. I can\u2019t recall if Coach Sommer had a quote. It was something like, \u201cThere are aggressive gymnasts and there are old gymnasts. There are no aggressive old gymnasts.\u201d It\u2019s something like that. And it was just like, let\u2019s not get too ahead of ourselves because the candle that burns twice as bright burns twice as fast situation.<\/p>\n<p>What are the non-negotiable lifts? If we\u2019re talking about just for lack of a better modifier, traditional lifts. The stuff that you could do that people could do if they walked down to a good neighborhood gym.<\/p>\n<p>Are there any things for you that you\u2019re, all right, these are some of the ingredients in my multivitamin? It\u2019s just like I take the multivitamin every week. That\u2019s how it works. A couple of movements.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The first one would be a sled. The reason why I sled is because it is something that Grandma can do, and it\u2019s something that the NFL linebacker can do. And it can be progressed or regressed to either level while causing probably most likely no issue to either.<\/p>\n<p>The reason why I mentioned the sled before I mentioned something like a barbell back squat or a barbell deadlift, is because some people, when it comes to direct actual spinal compression, where the barbells are right here, they just can\u2019t handle forms of that compression when moving through space yet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I mean, I probably shouldn\u2019t handle it frankly, right? I\u2019ve been doing back squats, but there\u2019s definitely part of me that\u2019s like, \u201cHomie, this is not a good idea.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. This is the thing though, I think there are many forms of squatting one can do. We talked about sandbag squats. That\u2019s not actually loaded. That actually feels really good because the weights in front of you, you are holding it. They feel safe, they feel good, they can be progressed.<\/p>\n<p>But the sled is something that you can load that thing up, and if it doesn\u2019t move, you just don\u2019t have the ability to produce the force to push or pull it through space. I wish everyone would be able to work with a sled because it\u2019s so safe and it has such a huge ability to be progressed or regressed to any level safely for literally everyone.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s why I\u2019m starting there. Louie Simmons was someone who, and he was the owner of Westside Barbell, who passed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Legendary.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Louie is the one who got Mark, and Mark introduced the sled to me, and it\u2019s just, the sled is powerful. So, unfortunately it\u2019s hard for some people to have that at home. I have a Torque sled at my house. It\u2019s this TANK sled that you can wheel around.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So, the Torque sled is not, it\u2019s not on skids, it\u2019s on wheels with \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Wheels.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 mechanical resistance?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes. And that one\u2019s, again, they came out with a new one that I have, I forgot its model, but it\u2019s one that you can literally swivel around. So, you\u2019ve seen the TANKS where you have to push it, then you have to get to the other side and push?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>This one. You can push, swivel and turn and push. It looks like a little Batmobile. It\u2019s pretty \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 cool.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Does that allow you to pull as well, or you\u2019ll only push?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It allows you to pull as well. You can hook a cable to it, and then you could also push and pull it. It has magnetic resistance, so you can increase the resistance so that the harder you push, the more resistance it gives you, so it can build to any level of resistance.<\/p>\n<p>I have my mom, who\u2019s 67, I have her come to my place so that she can do the sled multiple times a week. That\u2019s why I have her come, because it\u2019s something she can do and progress without pain. So, if people can just get themselves to a place that has a sled, it\u2019s a full body movement from the feet to the hands.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What does a sled workout look like? Or where does it integrate into a workout?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. A sled can be a very meaty part of your workout if you learn to like it. The reason why I say learn to like \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That exhale says so much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The reason I say \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>If you like swallowing broken glass, I have a piece of equipment for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>This is the thing, the slide could be a good first two, three minutes to get the knees warm when you\u2019re moving forward and backwards. Or it could be a very metabolically taxing strength building workout that you can do for 20 minutes to get your heart rate up while also increasing your ability to produce force.<\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s why I say when you\u2019re pushing a sled, your heart rate will spike, your whole body will go on fire because you\u2019re starting from your feet to produce force forward and pulling backwards. So it\u2019ll spike the heart rate, but everything will start to get sore.<\/p>\n<p>Your feet, your glutes especially, when you\u2019re learning how to stack your body against that weight, you\u2019ll see it. And people who are new on the sled, some of them aren\u2019t familiar with getting their body in the right position to produce force forwards.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>They\u2019re too upright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>They\u2019re too, the system\u2019s very open. So upright, you mentioned, right? So, some people, they\u2019ll start pushing a sled, their ribs will be in this flared forward position. Their pelvis won\u2019t be in a neutral position, it\u2019ll be tilted back, and they\u2019ll try pushing, they can\u2019t produce much force. You then, they learn how to \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And just to, sorry. Just to paint a picture for folks. If you imagine a sled, all right, so it\u2019s a sled, like a toboggan with weights on top of it, but what you\u2019re holding onto, imagine you have two subway poles in front of you that are, I don\u2019t know, 18 inches apart, 24 inches apart. Those are vertical.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re holding onto those, one with your left hand, one with your right hand, and then you\u2019re pushing that. Right? And so we\u2019re talking about the body position because this is going to be one of my follow-up questions is, what is the correct, what is your preferred position for pushing a sled?<\/p>\n<p>Are you bent 90 degrees at the hips, staring at the ground with your head in line with your arms as if you were doing an overhead press? Is it, I don\u2019t know, 20 degrees off of parallel to the ground with the upper body? What does it look like?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So, this is where I think the power \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ve wondered about this because I got a sled based on, actually, I think it\u2019s Mark Bell, who I owe thanks for this. A very early, early, early stone age version of something like the Torque sled.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Was it from Torque or was it another company?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I think it was another company. It was \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 like Xpro, X-P-R-O or something like that. I can\u2019t recall. Sorry guys that I\u2019m butchering it. But the challenge with that for me always was it was like, \u201cGod, I love this hip extension and glute engagement, and if I\u2019m not careful, I feel my lower back.\u201d So that\u2019s what I need to account for. I would love to get back into sled, but \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>\u2014 I would love to hear your thoughts on just avoiding probably too much flaring and pointing my titties at the ceiling. It\u2019s an exaggeration, but you get the idea, guys, if you\u2019re arching your back unnecessarily. It\u2019s a simplification. So, what would your prescription be?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Level one for the sled would be learning how to create a neutral system when pushing the sled through space. So you\u2019re inherently going to come forward a little bit. You\u2019re not going to be vertical and pushing.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re going to be leaning forward a little bit, but you need to make sure that your rib cage is over your hips. So it\u2019s like two bowls pouring into each other. When we were mentioning this open system flared, I know some people aren\u2019t watching the podcast. Your rib cage would be \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, flared. Imagine \u2014 sorry. Imagine if you had a foam roller. You put a foam roller right below your shoulder blades, and then you basically bent your upper back to bring your head closer to the ground.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That would be flaring, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So you cannot produce a lot of force when you have this flared system. You also, it\u2019s more difficult for \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s super common, by the way. People who think they don\u2019t do this, take videos of yourself doing varied exercises. It is so common.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s extremely common. Another issue is maybe having, this is a little bit less common, but too much flexion, right? So too much bending when trying to push. You want to be in a neutral position, a strong neutral position where your rib cage is right above your hips.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So, can you explain that to me? Because rib cage over my hips makes me think that I need to be upright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>All you want to think about is, for example, the neutral position that we think about when we\u2019re squatting down, that rib position, let\u2019s now angle the body forward while maintaining that rib position and pushing the sled.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Got it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s all it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s going to be the position that allows us to be able to produce the most force while moving forward. Now, for some people, when it comes to the upper part of the spine, let me also mention this. This is the level one pushing and pulling position that we want our ribcage in.<\/p>\n<p>Because for me, when I want people to progress what they do with the sled, it\u2019s a very powerful tool to allow you to push and pull in different spinal positions. So you start off by pushing and pulling the sled with a neutral spine. Then you can start to push and pull the sled laterally.<\/p>\n<p>So the sled is here, you\u2019re here, you\u2019re pushing the sled laterally. You\u2019re pulling the sled laterally while maintaining a fairly neutral spine. But then over time, the strength that you can get the sled is that when you push the sled, you can push with more spinal flexion when you become more comfortable.<\/p>\n<p>So you can learn to produce force with spinal flexion. And then you can learn so when you\u2019re pulling the sled, you can learn to almost Jefferson curl pull the sled in deep spinal flexion.<\/p>\n<p>You don\u2019t start here, but when you become comfortable, and you\u2019ve been doing this with very lightweight initially, you can be comfortable pulling this load with deep spinal flexion. That\u2019s later on. And that\u2019s, for me, where the sled has become super powerful.<\/p>\n<p>Because what my goal is for myself and what I\u2019ve done is I became very strong pushing and pulling stuff with a neutral spine. Then I pushed and pulled with spinal extension, purposefully putting myself in this position while pulling and pushing. I pushed and pulled in deep spinal flexion so that I could become very strong in this spinal position.<\/p>\n<p>I push and pull in deep lateral flexion. So I\u2019ll literally push the sled here with lateral flexion of the spine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That\u2019s so scary for me to watch.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019ll pull the sled here with deep lateral flexion on the other side so that I can strengthen all of the positions of my spine with this implement.<\/p>\n<p>This isn\u2019t something you\u2019re able to do with the barbell. You could do spinal flexion Jefferson curl stuff, you can do some lateral stuff, but the sled allows you to produce force on an object forward, backward, and to the side with that intent of movement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>When you are pulling, how are you pulling? I know this sounds dumb, but do you have ropes attached to the sled like with the Torque sled?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>How are you pulling it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So the Torque sled, there\u2019s two ways that I\u2019m pulling. When I want to get into deep flexion, I have this thing, it\u2019s something that Mark made; it\u2019s called a shake strap. It\u2019s this strap that you\u2019re able to, it\u2019s like a cable attachment that you can put on a machine, but you can also put the sled.<\/p>\n<p>And I loop my hands through it, right, so my hands are here, and then I\u2019ll let my back bend, and then I\u2019ll start walking backwards in deep spinal flexion with that pulling me. So it\u2019s like, if you can imagine my \u2014 there\u2019s a video of this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I can imagine that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Imagine you reach through a hole and then grab it and it\u2019s \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s right there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>\u2014 wrapped around the wrist.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And literally \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>When I\u2019m going backwards, I\u2019m in this position while moving backwards. I\u2019m in this deep spinal flexion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What about off the rack white belt version?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Neutral spine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Neutral \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019 what I said.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Right, but are you using the \u2014 what\u2019s it called?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You can use either the sled attachment that, whatever sled you\u2019re using, or you can most sleds have something that you can hook onto and then you can place that attachment, and then you can still push and pull with a neutral spine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I got it. What is that? What does Mark call that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s called a shake strap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Shake strap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. It\u2019s called a shake strap.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And he sells that somewhere presumably.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Everything that I\u2019ve talked about, I put it all in a place called thestrongerhuman.store. It\u2019s a website so all this equipment is there, but you can also find this at his website, which I believe is markbellslingshot.com. So, for the sandbags and everything, I mentioned ropes, it\u2019s at thestrongerhuman.store.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I was in the middle of nowhere, Italy, and I went to this gym, this tiny gym, and there was a slingshot there. And I took a photo and I sent it to Mark.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Those things are everywhere. They\u2019re everywhere. That\u2019s one of the cool things about that. You\u2019ll see them in the most random gyms, but when it comes to that, the basic version of the sled that Mom and Dad can do, older people, younger, everyone can do, push and pull with a neutral spine and learn how to produce force.<\/p>\n<p>Slowly increase the load. When you feel comfortable, start introducing a little bit of play in your spine. But when you introduce this play in your spine, don\u2019t move the spine out of that position when pushing and pulling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And probably drop the load.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Drop the load. Absolutely, drop the load. It needs to be light. But let\u2019s say for example, you start exploring with a little bit of spinal flexion when pulling the sled. You get into that spinal flexion, the sled is really light. You start pulling backwards. You\u2019re breathing, you\u2019re not holding your breath.<\/p>\n<p>Your body learns, hey, this is actually a good position for us to produce a little bit of force in. We\u2019re strong here. Versus when most people get in that position, there\u2019s a breath hold. It feels unsafe. Something gets pulled.<\/p>\n<p>So for me, now, the only reason I was able to progress this was because I worked on those regressions. And when a lot of trainers maybe see some of this, they\u2019re like, \u201cThat\u2019s unsafe. Just wait a few years. You\u2019re going to blow your back out.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Like, \u201cNo, I\u2019m not going to hurt myself because my body knows that this is a good resilient position to be in. I\u2019m not afraid of this position.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. There\u2019s also, I mean, so that is definitely key to keep in mind if you\u2019ve slowly conditioned yourself to be safe in those positions. There\u2019s also just a lot of dogmatic, \u201cNever do this\u201d nonsense that has no backing.<\/p>\n<p>The number of classes I\u2019ve been in where they\u2019re like, \u201cDon\u2019t lock your knees. Don\u2019t lock your arms.\u201d There are these posters that Coach Chris Sommer pointed me to. It\u2019s a photo of this Chinese gymnast beast in a Maltese cross. If you want to know what that is, go check that out. And it just says underneath, \u201cLock your elbows.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s yeah, if you\u2019re not dumb about it, our body, we have this full range of movement for a reason. Look, if you\u2019re hyper mobile and this and that, you got to take it into account.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>But also, you\u2019re allowed to ask questions about the rules. Make sure you understand why the rules exist and if the person can\u2019t explain it. Interesting. Well, at least I cross examined it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay, so one topic that you wanted to make sure we touched upon is soft tissue work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>This is a topic near and dear to my heart, so take it away. Where should we start?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So, again, so many things. I\u2019ve met Kelly Starrett maybe three times, you know what I mean? I think he\u2019s been on the show twice, and he\u2019s come to the gym.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Can I set the stage for people who have no idea who this is?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Set the stage for Mr. Starrett.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right. So Kelly Starrett, famous for <em>Becoming the Supple Leopard<\/em>, which by the way, I\u2019m not sure if he\u2019s ever shown this photo. There\u2019s a photograph of him in the gym that he started with his wife, which is him in a leopard print bathrobe, pulling a Zoolander. I\u2019m not sure if that relates to the title of the book, but the point is, high-level PT performance coach, works with the highest levels of military, highest levels of athletics.<\/p>\n<p>And also, this is important to me at least, is a practitioner, right? He walks the walk. I think for his, I think I\u2019m getting this right, for his 40th birthday, and this is a large man. He\u2019s a big boy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>He\u2019s got to be 230, 240, 250, who knows. In that range. Thighs as big around as this table.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He\u2019s going crazy if he\u2019s listening to you say this right now, by the way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I\u2019m just going to keep laying thick.<\/p>\n<p>His legs are ridiculously large. He is a very strong man. And for his 40th though, because you would look at him, you\u2019d be like, okay, that\u2019s a meat cube. I\u2019m sure he is very strong in a couple of lifts. However, for his 40th, I think it was he wanted to power clean some ungodly number, and he can\u2019t really use one of his wrists. So he catches the barbell in this half salute with one arm when he catches it on the shoulders. So there\u2019s that.<\/p>\n<p>So on his birthday he wanted to do that. He wanted to, I believe it was run an ultra marathon. And not just any ultra, but the Quad Dipsea, which is a killer, like a widow maker. You guys can look it up. It\u2019s in Northern California. And do a standing backflip. So it\u2019s like you would look at him, you wouldn\u2019t assume all of these things are possible, and yet there you have Kelly Starrett. So that is, and \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>He did a backflip?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And also, formerly incredibly high-level world-class kayaker. So this is an athlete who now helps other athletes and many more non-athletes in addition to that.<\/p>\n<p>So I took us on a bit of a sidebar. But you were saying, Kelly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think everyone should own his book on <em>Becoming a Supple Leopard<\/em> because there\u2019s so many concepts. I bought that book in 2013, and so many concepts or things that I\u2019ve continued to build my knowledge pace on that have helped so much. One thing from that book that was just a small mention but went a very long way for me was keeping a relaxed face when doing myofascial release or soft tissue work. And when you\u2019re doing soft tissue work, and we can just use an example, if you\u2019re on top of a foam roller or you\u2019re using a hard med ball, Kelly has his harder products like his Supernova product. It\u2019s very hard and you roll on top of it. It can hurt because you\u2019re now rolling your tissues on top of this hard piece of equipment. The instinctual thing to do was grimace and make faces.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Give me this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And what happens, even when I did that instinctively I tightened up right here. And those tissues, they bind up to try to keep you safe. You hold your breath, you tighten your face. You\u2019re not able to get as deep into the tissues that you\u2019re trying to work and help become more supple. So Kelly\u2019s advice is like, \u201cGet rid of your pain face.\u201d Stop, right? Because inherently, if you just try to get this loose, get this relaxed, you\u2019ll start to probably breathe. You\u2019ll start to get deeper into those tissues. The soft tissue work will work better. That\u2019s the goal of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Why is the soft tissue work important?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The soft tissue work is important because what I\u2019ve found is that when you have certain tissues that are too tense, earlier in our conversation we\u2019re talking about not holding the breath so that you\u2019re not holding onto too much tension, but what tends to happen for many of us is we have different areas of our body that hold more tension than others. And what soft tissue or self-myofascial release does is it helps you search for areas. You\u2019re tacking down certain tissues, that feels good, that feels good, ooh, that feels gummy.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re doing work on that, whether it\u2019s with a med ball or a Body Lever, which is the leverage tool I showed you. And when you\u2019re able to breathe and work through those areas, what you\u2019ll find is when you again work through that and it\u2019s not as painful, you go and you move again, you might have extra range of motion. You might have less joint pain in a joint that\u2019s lower or high of the area that you were just working. And a goal of this is to have that tissue state that you create after doing soft tissue work, have that be your default.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s the goal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Let me mention just a few things here too. One is going to sound super bougie, but I\u2019ll say it anyway. Even when I was driving around in my POS, hand me down minivan, and making next to nothing out of college, body work again, like scale it down. If I had to go drive into the most dangerous part of San Jose to the most sketchiest massage place just to pay for a 30-minute massage because I couldn\u2019t afford anything, I would do that.<\/p>\n<p>So bodywork and soft tissue work is something that has just been a non-negotiable for me forever. And it doesn\u2019t fix everything. It\u2019s not a panacea, but just to get into the microdosing movement, you can also microdose massage in terms of self soft tissue treatments.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>So before bed, pretty much whenever I\u2019m at home, certainly before bed, I always roll. And that is not just to work on the tissues, it\u2019s also to down regulate. And I\u2019m not sure if there\u2019s any science to back this, but it feels like it helps me shift into more parasympathetic state, helps with sleep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I do literally it\u2019s five minutes, I would say. Probably no more. Typically lower body, not a lot of upper body stuff. But as a result of that tiny, tiny continual dosing, it\u2019s like when I do get body work, it\u2019s very common they\u2019re like, \u201cWow, your muscles are very easy to work with. What is the story here?\u201d And it\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, it\u2019s just flossing.\u201d It\u2019s the daily practice of doing that soft tissue work.<\/p>\n<p>And I haven\u2019t used it yet, but I\u2019m excited to use \u2014 maybe you should just put \u2014 maybe the person who owns this product, so they should maybe in quotation marks, just call it the \u201cNutcracker.\u201d I think of a Nutcracker, what is it called? The Body Lever.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The Body Lever.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>The Body Lever. It looks like a giant nutcracker that you can, with your arms, use to compress your leg, or your abdomen, or you could brace it against a leg and use it to benevolently crush your arm to do forearm stuff. I mean, it looks very, very flexible. Rock climbers have used something, I think they probably have rebranded it now, called the Armaid, just specifically for the forearm stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I think there\u2019s a company, maybe Rogue, they had this thing that you could open up and clamp down on your legs and arms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, very, very similar idea. So I\u2019m looking forward to using that. I remember I saw you, maybe it was in the same video, I feel. But you were in a sauna with a proper banya hat on, with the nutcracker on your leg. And I was like, ooh, I want one of those. And I actually took a screenshot and sent it, small world, to Kelly Starrett. I was like, \u201cStarrett, where do I get one of these nutcrackers?\u201d And lo and behold, full circle, and now I shall have my nutcracker.<\/p>\n<p>What \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s here today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, yeah. Oh, amazing. All right. Look at this. Christmas comes early.<\/p>\n<p>What other types of, because when people think soft tissue, there are right and wrong ways to do this. Not everything delivers the kind of benefits one might hope, right? So for me, I mean, this is very 101, but it\u2019s like if I find an area as I\u2019m rolling out my IT band on my vastus lateralis, and the outside of the quad tends to get very, very tight. And if I find that gummy painful spot, it\u2019s like, okay, you don\u2019t just gloss over that. Let\u2019s sit on that for a while.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Also, using vibration even. Now they have Theraguns and stuff. I used to use a Hitachi Magic Wand for this, funny enough, if people \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Wait, what?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Popular with lesbians.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You really \u2014 bro. Okay, I could see that working. Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. So multipurpose, but using percussion devices for sure. Also, when I\u2019ve located through foam rolling that painful spot, going to it with a theragun or something like it. A million different devices you can choose from.<\/p>\n<p>Any other particular types of soft tissue work that you like to do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So let\u2019s just start with probably some of the easiest that you can manage. People like Gua Sha. You can get yourself a Gua Sha tool. You could pull out a butter knife.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You could pull out a butter knife, lotion up an area that you want to work. Let\u2019s say that you do a lot of gripping and your forearms are tight. Pull that out, get the area lotioned up, and then start to work those areas. Concepts when doing soft tissue work with any implement is number one, you have to breathe. The thing that people, I think makes it hard for people, makes them not want to do it, is they do it, they feel tension in a certain area. They hold their breath. They tense up. It doesn\u2019t loosen up because they\u2019re too tense. And it\u2019s a bad experience, so they don\u2019t come back and do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So just like we were talking about how when you\u2019re doing exercise, you need to regress it to your pain-free level stress.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That\u2019s true, yes. I was just going to say the same thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s not that you regress your soft tissue work to a pain-free level, but you regress it to a level that you can breathe, and try to relax while dealing with the pressure you\u2019re putting on yourself. So if you\u2019re putting so much pressure that you just have to go like that, you decrease the pressure. You\u2019re not ready, dog.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Which is also true with manual therapy. If you have somebody working on you. If you\u2019re bracing, or holding your breath, or making a pain face, it\u2019s too much pressure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, absolutely. Way too much pressure.<\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s something that can help you actually make progress with the practice, because if you can keep that as your North Star, try to relax my face, make sure I\u2019m breathing, and putting as much pressure I can manage if I\u2019m keeping these two things in line, you can progressively overload the amount of pressure you place on your tissues, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. I mean, just to pull something out. This is, I can\u2019t remember who told me this, but it\u2019s from Thai massage. I mean, who knows if this is originally from classic Thai massage. But a very, very, very good Thai massage therapist, which is an incredible art form, incredible, said to me, \u201cThere\u2019s no such thing as too deep, only too fast.\u201d So it\u2019s like you can get really deep with a lot of pressure. You just can\u2019t get there too quickly. And you can apply that to self massage.<\/p>\n<p>Also, there\u2019s a guy, Jason Nemer, co-creator of something called AcroYoga, amazing Thai massage therapist also. And he\u2019ll just use his forearm and his elbow on his own arms, on his own legs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You don\u2019t necessarily need a whole magician\u2019s kit full of tools. You can also just use your forearms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Exactly. Tennis ball at home. I think some tissues that people really leave out of the mix are their feet, especially the bottoms of his feet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I was just going to say this little looks like a tennis ball called Rubz, R-U-B-Z, but it\u2019s got little nubs on it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Super hard, or is it softish?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s pretty hard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Super hard? Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s pretty hard. But just I will travel with it, and it\u2019s like the amount of relief you get systemically from rolling out your feet. And I think who I picked that up from is Ed Corney, actually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah. He talked about decompression, a certain type of hanging. He has a very particular device. And then I\u2019m pretty sure he talked about rubbing out the feet because he said it helped with his knee pain. I was like, huh, I think I\u2019m going to try that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I\u2019m really happy you mentioned that about Ed, because when it comes to soft tissue there are many people within the sphere of fitness, especially on the evidence-based side of fitness, that when people talk about soft tissue work, the only thing, the only rebuttal they have is like, \u201cWell, there\u2019s really no research to back that up, and it\u2019s probably placebo. If it feels good, go ahead and do it, but there\u2019s nothing really to prove it works.\u201d And the frustrating thing about not just that, but many aspects of evidence-based fitness is that there\u2019s a waiting game to wait for a paper to tell you something works that\u2019s probably been done for centuries in many different cultures for a long time. Massage and soft tissue work has been a panacea for so many different groups of people around the globe. But we have people in exercise science that want to discount it because they don\u2019t have a paper that proves this efficacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So that\u2019s why, don\u2019t get me wrong, I\u2019m not saying evidence-based work isn\u2019t helpful, but don\u2019t allow evidence-based studies to block you off from trying something that might just be really beneficial for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>That\u2019s all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Let me add something to that because this is definitely a nerve for me as well. It\u2019s like, all right, look, science is amazing. Okay. The scientific method as a structured way of not fooling ourselves, incredible tool for humankind. I mean, indispensable. And Western medicine, I\u2019m going to say, and this is going to be controversial, the most effective healing system ever devised on the planet, period, full stop.<\/p>\n<p>If you look at infant mortality, reductions in infant mortality, the advent of antibiotics, I mean, this is an incredible system of healing, as are many others. All of that said, as someone who has been involved with supporting early stage science now for more than a decade, science is fucken expensive, and it\u2019s really slow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And what that means is also within the realm of exercise science, it\u2019s like you don\u2019t want to fool yourself so you should be scientifically literate. Yes, you should pay attention to the literature if you can. Yes, by the way, that takes some training to get to the point where you can actually read something like that properly.<\/p>\n<p>However, there are so many incentives that will prevent most studies from ever getting done that you could be waiting forever. And especially in the realm of exercise science, where it\u2019s like you\u2019re not experimenting with a speculative type of invasive brain surgery in some far-flung third-world country. It\u2019s like, no, try some soft tissue work. Who cares? The downside risk is so minimal. See how you feel. Learn to trust your body again. Which is another reason why I, more and more so, and it\u2019s not valuing it more so, but increasingly value movement, because it teaches you to get reacquainted with the subtleties of feeling your body, which autopilot linear movements in the gym do not automatically do. Do you know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And then you can become a better gauge. And look, this isn\u2019t to pat myself on the back, but as you do more of that, it\u2019s like when we were doing the rope stuff this morning and I was like, oh, I feel like I\u2019m flaring. I feel like I got a little too high on that right foot. And it\u2019s like you develop these sensitivities, and then when you have, and look, again, I\u2019m not Baryshnikov, or I\u2019m not a surgeon with the most delicate hands in the world, can\u2019t read Braille. But as you develop that, you can then trust your body, right? It\u2019s like, all right, you\u2019ll begin to pick up patterns.<\/p>\n<p>And also, I think I had too many exogenous ketones, but lots of personality, I\u2019ll keep going for a second. The other thing, and this came up through my archery in the last six months, because I was training with amazing guy, Jake Kaminski, two times silver medalist. One of the most successful archers the US has produced in the last 30, maybe 50 years. And he, like me, takes meticulous training notes, including soft tissue. So that if he had a problem, he\u2019s like, \u201cHmm, this rib is slightly out,\u201d which is a really common issue with archery. He could be like, \u201cNo, it\u2019s not the last workout.\u201d He identified through patterning because he shot a million plus arrows easily. He would look back and he\u2019s like, \u201cIt\u2019s usually five or six workouts back.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And I could identify either what helped me, or what the problem was. And similarly, it\u2019s like, just experiment. Take good notes. Try not to fool yourself, and keep what works, ditch what doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Ditch what doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>But man, the soft tissue stuff, it\u2019s so incredibly helpful. And I wanted to add also, just because I mentioned the pre-bed, not to totally hijack this, but so it goes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You can. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You mentioned rope flow prior to bed, if I\u2019m not misremembering. That was not on mic, but do you do rope before bed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. I\u2019ll do some nights it\u2019s maybe three or five minutes. Some nights it\u2019ll be just flowing for 20 minutes outside my house, just relaxing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And you were saying that also it helps to alleviate the morning stiffness the next day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Okay. I\u2019ll come back to the soft tissue thing in a second. But Mark and I were having a conversation early last year, and we were like, man, you just wake up. What can help us just get rid of waking up in the morning, just feeling that morning stiffness? Not morning wood, just body stiffness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Don\u2019t want to fix that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Right, don\u2019t want to fix that. You want that. That\u2019s a good sign of hormonal health. But the general morning stiffness where you got to wring out your body a little bit. So I thought about that for a while, and then I just started doing rope flow before bed. And the first night I did rope flow before bed, which wasn\u2019t something I usually did. I usually just like, I\u2019d come home, work, maybe take a walk, go to bed, wake up, do rope flow, feel amazing. Did rope flow before bed, woke up the next morning. It was just like, ah. Really, I just felt like I didn\u2019t need to \u2014 my body was already lubricated. That\u2019s what I felt like.<\/p>\n<p>And I was like, okay, maybe this is just a one night thing. But I then noticed that the nights that I didn\u2019t do some rope, and all it is is rotating before bed. Let\u2019s just call it that. If you have something that you can get some natural rotation in before bed, cool. If you have the rope practice, cool. But getting that natural spinal rotation in before bed will help you feel better when you wake up in the morning, and your back will not feel as stiff. You know what I mean?<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s huge. So the reason why I know it works is because I have nights where I don\u2019t do it. And I\u2019ve also told many people in the stronger human community to try that and let me know what they feel. And everyone that does it wakes up feeling better in the morning. So I know that it\u2019s one of those practices that if you have a practice where you do some soft tissue work, don\u2019t stop the practices you do, just add in three minutes. Do two to five minutes before you go to bed. Two to five minutes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, scale it down. If you\u2019re like, \u201cI don\u2019t have 10 minutes.\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, you do one minute.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Every case.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s like, oh, I can\u2019t do one minute. It\u2019s fine. Do three passes on the IT bed on each leg on a foam roller. Come on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s like there will be a point at which you have no excuse. And I\u2019ll add one more thing, which I guess I accidentally omitted from my mind as soft tissue work, but it\u2019s definitely soft tissue work. And this is something that has stuck for me big time and I\u2019ve passed on to a lot of friends. Also, to give credit where credit is due.<\/p>\n<p>So my mid-back was bothering me. I had this really old injury and my mid-back was really spasmed. And I was doing hand balancing practices 100 years ago with a guy named Andrii Bondarenko. And I didn\u2019t train with him much. I mean, the guy is a phenom. He is a, or at least at the time, was a top Cirque du Soleil performer, famous for one armed hand balancing, like one arm handstands. He\u2019s not a big guy. Who knows? He probably weighs 130 pounds, maybe 140. Maybe of people I\u2019ve met personally, the most incredible combination of strength and mobility that I\u2019ve ever seen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>What\u2019s his \u2014 I\u2019ll get his name after. I need to write that down.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Andrii, A-N-D-R-I-I, Bondarenko. And I think his Instagram is just Andrii Bondarenko, excellent teacher. And we did some hand balancing stuff, and I was explaining my back issues and he\u2019s like, \u201cOh, you need to get one of these mats.\u201d And the mat was, I ended up getting the Nayoya Acupressure Mat.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Is this like a Shakti?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It might be the same thing. There are a bunch of imitators too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>There\u2019s one called Bed of Nails. The basic idea is it\u2019s like a thick towel with plastic golf cleats covering it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And then there\u2019s one for the neck, and it fucken hurts. And even to this day, I\u2019ve done it hundreds of times, if you\u2019re a little sensitive, especially if the tissue\u2019s inflamed, it hurts. If you stick with it past three or four minutes then your body chills out. And I typically stay on 10 minutes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>The reason Andrii introduced it to me is his coach, when he used to do team acrobatic competitions, which is a big thing in Eastern Europe and other parts of the world, where you have guys \u2014 it\u2019s almost like if you could imagine cheerleading plus, plus, plus, plus, plus, where you\u2019d also have male only teams, female only teams, where you\u2019d have a flyer, someone who\u2019s doing crazy acrobatics. That would be Andrii who would get shot into the air, with guys who would make a, they call it, a basket with their hands. People can look this up.<\/p>\n<p>All those guys would just be beaten to hell. And the coach would make all of them lay on one of these for 45 minutes after every practice. And I started using it and I was like, okay, I have no idea how this works. All I know is man does this work. And before bed, especially with a lot of my back issues, that is non-negotiable. And I\u2019ll give one trick for folks also. If you have low back issues specifically, traveling with the whole kit and caboodle is a pain in the ass. Just take the neck attachment, travel with that. That\u2019ll fit easily into most suitcases. And then you can lay on that for your low back on the carpet in the hotel or whatever for 10 minutes before you go to bed. Resolves 50% of my low back issues for sleep. It\u2019s incredible.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So the cool thing about this is it\u2019s really simple as to why this all works, blood flow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You bring pressure to an area, you drive blood and nutrients to that area after pressure is relieved. So when you have that on your back, or you have that on your whole back, because I actually have the same thing at home. I have it in a box. I need to bring it back out. Because I did it for a while and I was like, oh, it\u2019s cool. I like it. It helps me relax, but I didn\u2019t keep it. So I\u2019m going to bring that back now that you mentioned it.<\/p>\n<p>But all these things, they\u2019re driving a bunch of blood to that area, which now when you get up you feel relief in those areas that you brought a level of pressure to. And that\u2019s why it\u2019s so good for healing of specific areas. And that\u2019s why when it comes to soft tissue, I don\u2019t just do the hot areas that most people would think about, like maybe the quads or the forearms, et cetera. I hit my whole body throughout the week. So I\u2019ll do tissue work on my head. I have a tool that I\u2019ll use. And while I\u2019m in the sauna I\u2019ll get on my temple, I\u2019ll get on my head, I\u2019ll get on the back of my neck. I\u2019ll get here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Must make people comfortable. This is not like you\u2019re in a public sauna.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I have a sauna at home.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But when I do go out to the public sauna, I do take a Gua Sha tool and a Body Lever with me, and I will hit that stuff in there. And usually people are like, \u201cWhat are you doing? That looks like, it feels so good.\u201d So I\u2019ll give them the Gua.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. You know what? That\u2019s not so bad. That\u2019s not so bad. I mean, I\u2019ve been to some of the OG, Russian, Turkish baths in New York City, and there are these old guys from the old country who are shaving their chests in the sauna. And I\u2019m just like, \u201cBro. That\u2019s not okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You shouldn\u2019t be able to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>It\u2019s not okay. I\u2019ve seen it on multiple occasions. So the point I\u2019m making, Nutcracker, fine. I\u2019m okay with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Absolutely. But that\u2019s the thing. You\u2019re bringing blood flow to all these areas. And if you can \u2014 going back to what you were mentioning about learning how to heal yourself, that\u2019s what this is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Body workers are essential. They\u2019re great. I have no issue with them. But I think that if you\u2019re someone who you go to a body worker and it\u2019s usually maybe a two-time-a-month thing, because that\u2019s what most people can afford, usually it\u2019s like once or twice a month. Now you can go to a body worker multiple times a week because you are your own body worker. You learn to find the areas that \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>First off, you learn that when you put pressure in a certain area you get release somewhere else, so you take a mental note. And at this point, for me, I know that when I\u2019m feeling a little something in this upper part of my glute, I know what to hit. If I\u2019m feeling something in my wrist, I know what to hit, my forearm. I have these reference points of how to heal myself because I\u2019ve become familiar with pressurizing my body.<\/p>\n<p>And you learn these things. You know what I mean? And anyone can learn this. You don\u2019t have to have a degree with a bunch of schooling on this. You just have to touch yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. That\u2019s it. You just have to experiment.<\/p>\n<p>Another one, and I actually owe Dustin Moskovitz the thank you for this, co-founder of Facebook, now Asana. It is the worst branding, which is why I always forget the product name. It\u2019s like the Back Buddy. It basically looks like a very tricked out Pimp my Thera Cane. So a Thera Cane would be like a plastic candy cane that allows you to get to points on your back that at least I am completely unable to touch.<\/p>\n<p>And then there\u2019s one that looks more like an S.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019m pretty sure it\u2019s called Back Buddy. People can look this up. If you just search Dustin Moskovitz Back Buddy I\u2019m sure the right name will come up. And I have one of these everywhere I go as well because there\u2019s no way, in terms of soft tissue work, me doing good work on my back is going to be a little tough for getting very focused attention.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right. Anything else to add on the soft tissue side of things?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. In terms of equipment, Amazon has med balls. So you can get yourself a med ball on Amazon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That\u2019s a ball name, medicine ball?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Medicine ball, yeah. Because that can allow you to \u2014 and they\u2019re inexpensive. So you can roll on top of it, on top of your hamstrings, your quads. You can do some torso work. But it\u2019s a good inexpensive tool for you to get yourself some soft tissue work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And just for clarity. You are rolling on top of it, or you are rolling the medicine ball on top of your leg, as an example?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You\u2019re on top of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. Yeah. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>You are on top of it, using the pressure from your body to put into that ball.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Ah, yeah. I got it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So I would look at these are different types of pressure. The med ball allows you to put your own pressure into that implement. So there\u2019s that. I think there\u2019s this woman called Jill Miller. She has on Amazon Tune Up Fitness Balls is what they\u2019re called.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I like those specifically because they\u2019re not extremely hard. They have a tad bit of give. They\u2019re hard, but they have a bit of give so you can really sink yourself into it with that pressure. So I would suggest instead of, because most people they want to get the hardest balls, but the thing is hard, hard instruments, especially when you\u2019re pushing or pressurizing into them, they can almost make most people back away from that resistance. Most people need to use a slightly softer implement to ease themselves into this soft tissue work before moving towards the Kelly Starrett Supernova, or his Peanut, or any of these harder implements.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So that would be at some type of pressure. The Body Lever allows for a leverage type of pressure, where now you are pressing two things into each other and you\u2019re finding that type of pressure. And then it also allows you to kneed, like you would at a massage with a masseuse. You now can use that pressure to knead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And then, as far as other implements, there are Gua Sha tools that you can get from different companies, Amazon or whatever, where again, it\u2019s this rubbing pressure. You want to have these implements that provide you different types of pressure so you can do whatever it calls for on any given day. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right. Let me ask, just because I have to ask, or my OCD will not allow me to proceed, or at least not land the plane on this conversation. Nordic curls. What are Nordic curls and what does your resume look like with respect to Nordic curls?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>The Nordic hamstring curl is something that I started doing again after I met my buddy, Ben Patrick. I wasn\u2019t able to do a Nordic curl when I first met him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay, so explain what a Nordic curl is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>A Nordic hamstring curl \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Is this also something you should not just run out and try without supervision?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Don\u2019t do it. Don\u2019t do it. Regress it. If you try a Nordic curl, most people will pull their hamstring.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>A way that you could do a Nordic curl would be, let\u2019s say there\u2019s a flat bench. Let\u2019s imagine that you have your knees on the bench. You could strap your ankles into the bench, and the goal is to lean your torso down, almost just like you\u2019re leaning your torso down, all the way down, and then come up with the strength of your hamstrings. So you\u2019re not slamming down, you\u2019re not just falling, you\u2019re going down slowly. And the hamstring strength is going to be the limiting factor if you are able to control yourself down or bring yourself up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. So, exactly. It\u2019s so much hard. I mean, it is hard the way you describe it, and it is even harder. I have a Sorinex machine for the Nordic hamstring curl.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I have a machine at home too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, I haven\u2019t touched it in a long time. It\u2019s a little dusty at this point, but imagine I\u2019ll give another visual for folks. So imagine that you had a nice thick memory foam at the edge of a pool, so you could put your knees down without your knees hurting, and then a really fat friend came behind you and just sat on your ankles. So now you can get to your max height on your knees. So your hips are kind of in, your knees are in line with your hips, which are in line with your shoulders, and your fat friend is sitting on your ankles, but you\u2019re comfortable in the memory foam. And then without breaking at the hip, right? Keeping the knees, hips, and shoulders in line, you put your hands behind your back and then go all the way down so your nose touches the water and then come all the way back up. It is so fucking hard. And then how does this fit? Why the hell am I asking you about Nordic curls? There must be some historical reasons.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So I saw that a few years ago. I saw that Tyreek Hill did a certain amount of Nordic curls.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Who is this person?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Tyreek Hill is an NFL player. I don\u2019t watch much football, so I forget the team he plays for, but he\u2019s like, people see him as he\u2019s one of the fastest, if not the fastest player in NFL. And one thing, and a trend you notice amongst a lot of guys who are very fast is that they also have the ability to do a few, if not many Nordic curls. One thing about the Nordic hamstring curl, there has been some research to back this up, but it doesn\u2019t mean you have to do Nordic curls if you want to build resiliency in sprinting, but they progress Nordic curls on athletes that sprinted. And these athletes all had less occurrence of pulling their hamstrings because of the amount of strength that you build in your hamstring at length. Because you notice at the end range of a Nordic curl, your hamstring is at this length and position with stress on the hamstring, which is why if you\u2019re new to the movement, you need to regress it because you could pull your hamstring in that position. It feels \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Pull a hamstring, by the way, is not like, \u201cOuch, that hurt. Let me sleep on it. Now I\u2019m okay the next day.\u201d Typically, it\u2019s not one of those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s not nice. So when Ben talked to us and told me about the Nordic curls, I tried one, couldn\u2019t get it, and I was like \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What did this NFL guy do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Oh, I forgot how many, I think Tyreek did maybe 12 or 13? 12 or 13. So what I wanted to do is I wanted to progress Nordic curls, and when I saw Tyreek\u2019s video, I was like, \u201cI want to do more than Tyreek.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For me to progress Nordic curls, I started at the basic regressions. I started first off having a bench higher and going with limited range of motion, so not going all the way down, finding where my body would not be able to handle the pressure and going to that range, repping that out. Slowly lowering down, took me a few months to lower down to a flat bench. Then I was able to finally do one Nordic curl. Then I would do a curl where I would go down and push myself up and give myself assistance. And over time that built, and then I think, correct me if I\u2019m wrong, but I think in the video I managed to do 18 Nordic curls. I\u2019m not sure if I did 17 or 18 Nordic curls.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Something like that. I mean, look, I\u2019m relying on, I\u2019m relying on some deep research here. So let me take a look here. I mean, I think we should pull up the tape.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>We\u2019ll have the video here. We\u2019ll have some footage here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Deep research says that the previous record Tyreek was 10 and you did 15.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There we go. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>But the point is, the differential was substantial from a percentage standpoint. You did not just eke out, barely beating the record. You beat the record substantially.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And this isn\u2019t like a world record. I think there\u2019s a guy who, he\u2019s much lighter, but I think he managed to do 25 Nordic curls or something like that. So it\u2019s like I\u2019m not the guy in the world who\u2019s done the most Nordic curls, but I wanted to be Tyreek. If I\u2019m to be Tyreek in one thing, because I\u2019m not faster than Tyreek, it\u2019s going to be doing more Nordic curls.<\/p>\n<p>But it\u2019s one thing, a strength coach who I respect so much and he\u2019s taught me a lot through the show and through what I\u2019m able to see him do with athletes, Ian Danney. He\u2019s someone who I love his work because he\u2019s someone who takes everything that we\u2019ve managed to talk about here, and he applies it to different athletes he works with. So he\u2019ll have certain athletes that he progresses a lot of Nordic curls with, he\u2019ll have athletes that he does different soft tissue work with. He has athletes that he purposefully has them do certain types of static stretching, which certain people are like, static stretching isn\u2019t good for you, but Ian knows when and where to apply these different modalities, rather than saying, \u201cThat\u2019s just bad, we shouldn\u2019t do it.\u201d Ian is someone who understands how to use all of these things holistically to make progress and that\u2019s something that I really think most of us should try to do when it comes to our personal physical practice.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right. So bone density. I have lifted most of my life and in certain segments of my body, I was shocked to find, I think partially due to the back injury and reducing certain types of loading. But I have below average bone density in a few segments of my body. Not all, it\u2019s like the average is fine, but averages can be super misleading. You\u2019ve got to be careful with the averages. So the average on DXA, great, but in certain segments way below average. So I was like, \u201cHmm, I\u2019ve been thinking about bone density a lot.\u201d For longevity and health span, you want sufficient bone density.<\/p>\n<p>There are different ways to catalyze the adaptation of increased bone density: compression (lifting), tension (isometrics), impact (jumping), and then rotation, which is certainly for me, and I think for a lot of people, whether they consider themselves athletes or not, that is an obvious omission a lot of the time. And that could be mace, kettlebell, juggling, rope.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>And that\u2019s more so pulling at the bones. So that rotation, it is rotation, but it\u2019s also pulling these segments.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I Got it. I got it. Okay. So you need more tension. So rope may not be actually a great example, but the kettlebell would be since it\u2019s at the end of a kinetic chain that\u2019s getting elongated or at least, and stretch in that sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay, got it. All right. Aging insurance, certainly. This is something I think about a lot with aging parents as well and really trying to, I was talking to a doctor I know really well and he is like, \u201cYeah.\u201d I call my parents\u2019 trainer and I just say, when I see he\u2019s like, I just say \u201cMake them cry. You have to make my parents cry,\u201d because they need the bonus. You have to load it, it can\u2019t be comfortable or at least overly comfortable. Anything else that you\u2019d like to just add on? Bone density?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, I think that, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Oh, also another one. Just because the one place I\u2019m happy to spend a lot of money is on very, very, very good doctors. And I\u2019m fortunate to have really good doctors. You have to ensure you have adequate calcium absorption and that you are not taking things that could over time interfere with calcium absorption. So in addition to the stressors, you\u2019ve got to pay attention to what you\u2019re able to absorb.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>On my YouTube channel, I have a video that I made. It\u2019s like 40 something minutes on bone density that goes into everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right, great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It goes into all of this. So if you guys want to spend some time and go and watch that video, it\u2019s going to be worth it for you.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>But one thing I want to mention, I\u2019m happy you mentioned the jumping thing because jumping is something that we just literally stopped doing. Some people, it\u2019s something that I stopped, I was a soccer player for years, and when I got into a certain form of practice, there was a point where I didn\u2019t jump for years unless maybe I was just doing a random box jump here and there, which I ended up being really crap at because jumping is something I stopped doing. And what happens to many people is because they slowly stop getting off the ground, there comes a point where they never jump again and then they\u2019re 40, 50, 60, they jump, they pull something and then they\u2019re like, \u201cI can\u2019t do this.\u201d Because they can\u2019t, first off, they don\u2019t have the strengths to propel themselves off the ground, but they also don\u2019t have the elasticity to be able to land and handle the force from the ground.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, exactly. It\u2019s not the jumping, necessarily, that the problem, it\u2019s the landing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s the landing. So I think something that can be a great investment for many people, including those that are older is a rebounder. A rebounder is a mini trampoline that you can have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, little trampoline.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>There\u2019s many brands. Bellicon is like the Rolls Royce of rebounders, but there\u2019s also<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Bellicon. Sounds like the Rolls Royce.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. There\u2019s also less expensive brands. But I love the rebounder. I have a rebounder, and the reason why I like it is because it\u2019s something that I can just keep in the backyard and when I go outside, I can just hop on it real quick. It feels pretty meditative. But there\u2019s been quite a few studies to show, especially in older adults that rebounding helped them build bone density because of the low intensity jumping that it causes for them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I can guess at the answer here, but why is that better than say, jumping rope or just jumping in place?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s a regression.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>It\u2019s the regression. You know what I mean? Because many people, they try jumping rope. Many people, their feet will get beat up a lot. It\u2019s something that you absolutely can and should build the capacity to do. I look at jumping rope as rebounder, light hopping, 30 seconds to a minute to two minutes of jumping rope each day or every other day. Then over time, you\u2019re going to get to a point where you can jump rope for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes. But the thing is, the ability to jump rope without certain muscles and areas getting taxed more than others is a full body build of elasticity from the feet to all the way up to the neck. Because everything needs to have the right amount of tension, but not too much tension. So what a lot of people notice when they start jumping rope is that they\u2019re like, \u201cOh, my calves got super sore.\u201d Right?<\/p>\n<p>Experienced people who jump rope, it\u2019s not their calves that get super sore. It\u2019s like everything just kind of starts getting tired out because their whole system is just popping them off the ground very lightly. Whereas when you\u2019re new to it, that impact and even your feet are too weak to handle that impact on the ground and don\u2019t pop off. So that\u2019s why a rebounder is going to be super good then regress, so you can have your hands on something and start jumping. Then just literally, when I say \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>What do you mean by hands on something?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Put your hands on a table, hop. Use that to help you have a softer landing. Initially, you might have a lot of weight in your hands so that, because maybe you can\u2019t handle that landing, but over time you\u2019re going to be able to put less weight in the hands. And then this is where I got my mom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So hopping aka, basically, emulating what you would do, kind of jump roping?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, you could do that lightly. You can also kind of transfer from leg to leg light hops, but the goal is to, again, do not be embarrassed with how low you have to regress to feel comfortable with this. Don\u2019t just try starting to jump with a jump rope immediately, because if you do that too soon and your body\u2019s telling you signals that you\u2019re not ready for it, whether you\u2019re getting a lot of impact in your lower back, your knees, your feet are feeling really beat up. You need to listen to those signals and regress the hopping. I\u2019m telling you, if you can regress hopping, do it a little bit, it doesn\u2019t have to be every day, it could be every other day just a little bit. You\u2019ll get to a point where you can start jumping rope. You\u2019ll get to a point where \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>If you want to see an example of what not to do, people can search for the Tim Ferriss experiment parkour episode where I went from no jumping to let me try to learn parkour in a week. Don\u2019t do that. Yeah, do not do that. Basically just blew apart my entire body like Forrest Gump\u2019s braces. Not a good idea, so yeah, regress.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But the reason why I think that that\u2019s so important, it\u2019s great for bone density what we were saying here, but I think it allows you to bring back that skill and never lose it. Because once you\u2019re able to start hopping and it\u2019s now an effortless thing, just a little bit will allow you to hold onto it for the rest of your life. And if you have it right now, do the low-intensity jump rope. You don\u2019t even need a jump rope. Just do some hopping each day so that you maintain that ability to just propel and land that goes very far, and a majority of the population can\u2019t do it anymore just because one day they stopped and they never did it again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah. I can\u2019t remember who told me this. I\u2019m inclined to say Kelly Starrett because I get a lot of these from Kelly. So Kelly, I\u2019ll give you credit for this even if it\u2019s not you, but I think it is Kelly who is quoting a famous Russian sports scientist, as I recall it, who said, \u201cOnce you stop jumping, you start dying.\u201d That was the quote.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I love that. Yes, dude, that\u2019s true. There was this video, maybe I\u2019ll be able to find it by the time this comes out, but it literally showed this young man and it showed all of his relatives that were over 40. He had something up there and he was trying to have everyone jump. No one even actually, there was a few people in their 30s, everyone tried jumping and they could barely get off the ground. It\u2019s such an awkward thing, and he\u2019s someone who trains jumping so he was able to go super high. But it just shows that once you stop, it can go very quickly. But I want people to understand this doesn\u2019t mean you can\u2019t get it back. It just means that you\u2019ve got to treat yourself like a kid that\u2019s learning to walk again, you got to start with the basics. Be okay with that taking a while. Your feet have to adapt to the stress your body has to adapt to handle that force, and could be a year, could be two, could be like whatever.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>So what does a rebounder session look like? How long would you bounce on it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Literally, you could bounce on it again, just kind of like you could do a minute, you could do 10. A rebounder takes away a lot of the impact that you\u2019re going to have from the ground because it allows you to go in and then you\u2019re able to use that energy to pop back up. So when you become, there are rebounders, like the Bellicon, I think other rebounders also, they have these handles that you can use if you find it difficult.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>I\u2019ve seen this. Yeah, they\u2019re all tricked out. They\u2019re like the Batmobile sled.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, there\u2019s a whole fitness, a whole fitness trend of people on YouTube that do rebound or exercise is like it\u2019s a workout for them. And The cool thing, and this is actually, I think this is a great thing, some of them are heavier, that\u2019s powerful. Somebody who is, let\u2019s say they\u2019re a hundred pounds overweight, 150 pounds overweight, but they can actually start jumping again and they can start bouncing again. But then over time they can transfer that to flat ground. So that\u2019s why I think it\u2019s super powerful for everyone, and if you find that jumping, you can\u2019t do jumping, rebounding is great.<\/p>\n<p>Now, I also like rebounding too, because it\u2019s something that I feel kind of decompresses my system a little bit. I like it because when I get into the air, there\u2019s just this, I can\u2019t replicate this floaty thing that happens in the air where it\u2019s just like you\u2019re weightless, and then when you become experienced, you can really go down into the rebounder and just get super high and you\u2019re just literally going down and floating. When I come off of the rebounder, my body feels similar to when I finish a swim. I feel this global decompression everywhere. So it\u2019s one of those practices that I look at that makes the body feel better afterwards than before. It\u2019s not meant it can be a workout if you want to be. I don\u2019t look at my rebounding as a workout. I look at the rebounding as a recovery practice that feeds my body and allows me to do more hard work later. I look at the rope as that too. It feeds my body and allows me to do more later. It\u2019s healthy for me. And it\u2019s just fun.<\/p>\n<p>I think a big thing here, all this stuff for me is fun, man. It feels like play, right? So that\u2019s very important for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, playing the long game, if it\u2019s too boring or too punishing, ultimately it\u2019s got to be sustainable. And we\u2019re excited to try a lot of what we\u2019ve talked about. So where can people find all things Nsima?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah, make me and my producer Owen Carr, we make videos on the YouTube channel, which is just my name Nsima Inyang. So if you want to find the bone density video, the traditional strength training video that\u2019s at my YouTube channel, which is just my name, Nsima Inyang. For any of the \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Just to note for people, there\u2019s a silent N in there. N-S-I-M-A I-N-Y-A-N-G.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Yeah. If you say my name wrong, trust me, I ain\u2019t going to get mad at you. Don\u2019t worry, okay? So don\u2019t be scared. Over at my website, thestrongerhuman.store, there\u2019s ropes, sandbags, kettlebells, the Body Lever, pretty much everything that I use, it\u2019s over there at the Stronger Human Store.<\/p>\n<p>And then if you want to learn rope flow for free, I have a rope flow Foundations course that has 55 modules and over 50 videos that go in depth, taking you from being someone who can be basic with rope flow, to someone who can now flow with many different movements. That\u2019s in the stronger human community, which is on skool.com\/thestrongerhuman. And I also have stuff there where you can learn kettlebell flow, how to do soft tissue work. Pretty much \u2014\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Skool.com is spelled like normal school?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>S-K-O-O-L, S-K-O-O-L.com\/thestrongerhuman. Thanks for that correction. My goal for that place is, first off, there\u2019s a great community there of over 12,000 people right now. They\u2019re all doing, I love how these people bring in their different expertise with what they\u2019re doing. Not everyone is doing all the exact same things that I do. So it\u2019s cool that I get to learn from them too. But it\u2019s just a great community of people that are all just trying to become stronger and build their own personal physical practices. My goal for myself there is just to put everything that I\u2019ve learned there.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I think I want to mention this, Tim, your podcast is a podcast that me and my best friend, his name\u2019s Brian Bulaya. We were listening to your show back when I was 18 years old. We were listening to your stuff back. Actually, no, I think I was 20. The 19 and 20s when we were listening to your show, we would literally go on calls and be like, \u201cOkay, dude, what\u2019d you learn from this?\u201d We\u2019d get the books that were referenced in the show. I think we read <em>The Way of the Superior Man<\/em> because of something you mentioned on one of your, somehow came up. So that\u2019s what got me on the path of self-development and learning, constant learning and Brian would say the same thing. Me and him are going to go crazy because like, \u201cOh, we just went on Tim Ferriss.\u201d It\u2019s cool. So I want to say thank you.<\/p>\n<p>Because honestly, dude, I\u2019ve listened to so much of your show, so much of your show, and it\u2019s taught me so much through the years that for me being here right now, it\u2019s literally insane to me. I\u2019m just happy that I was able to stay kind of chilled during this show. This has been really cool. So I want to say thank you because you literally, man, your stuff has changed my life, seriously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Amazing. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>And so glad we got to spend time together, and I\u2019m very excited to see what you do in the coming years. How old are you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>32, turning 33 this year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>You\u2019ve got some runaway. I cannot wait to see. The fact that you\u2019re doing Masters. I\u2019ve got to talk some shit.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>I also compete in Adult! I also compete in Adult. I don\u2019t only compete in Masters.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Because Masters starts at 30, right. And I remember this past winter, someone\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, you should do some Masters competitions in skiing.\u201d And I was like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the lowest age that one can be Masters?\u201d They\u2019re like, \u201c30.\u201d And I was like, \u201cOh, I see.\u201d So people who just stopped competing at the highest levels. No, I\u2019m not going to be a mop for those guys. Thanks very much.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But there\u2019s ranges of Masters. There\u2019s Masters One, which is what I did. So I compete in Adult and Masters, but there\u2019s also Masters Two and Three. So they do it from 30 to 33, then 34.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>All right, all right\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>So it\u2019s not like I\u2019m competing against some 60-year-old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss:<\/strong> Just sandbagging. Just like, \u201cTake this guillotine\u2026 bitch!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>No, they\u2019re all around my same age.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: \u201c<\/strong>How\u2019s that arthritis? I\u2019m going to [inaudible] your arm off. Don\u2019t look at me that way.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>But I also compete in adult.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: \u201c<\/strong>Take your walker and get out of here.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. Well, the very, very, very fun and super, super informative to spend time together and very inspiring because as you\u2019re talking about these things, and I\u2019m sure I\u2019m not the only person, I\u2019m sure people listening, you do a very good job of making it seem, which it is, not just tangible but achievable. Scale it down, right? You\u2019re not going to walk in and do 600, 700-pound, 800-pound deadlifts tomorrow if you haven\u2019t been deadlifting. You don\u2019t need to do that. You shouldn\u2019t even attempt to do that. You shouldn\u2019t even attempt your one rep max and the payoff that you can get from layering these things in. Learning to feel your body, learning to then trust your body, becoming familiar with the map that is your body and how it changes over time. The payoff with this type of micro-dosing of movement, the micro-dosing of soft tissue treatment, it does not need to be. And turn your life upside down, change everything transformation overnight. And it shouldn\u2019t be because that\u2019s going to fail.<\/p>\n<p>And from experience, I can tell you whether it was with training with Jerzy back in the day, or training with Coach Sommer back in the day, it\u2019s like these little things done consistently. If you are consistent and you add some progressive overload. Doesn\u2019t mean a lot, doesn\u2019t mean slapping on 20 pounds every time you go to the gym with extra weight. Micro-progressions that are sustainable, so you\u2019re not getting injured, ideally, those things will happen\u2014little nicks and bruises along the way. What that can add up to when I look back at some of those experiences, it\u2019s just unbelievably impressive and more important, fulfilling. And you can actually fully inhabit this body that, by the way, mind, body, there\u2019s no separation. It\u2019s just one integrated unit. And we are evolved to move our bodies through space. That\u2019s why the idea of a brain and a jar doesn\u2019t really work. Uploading consciousness, no. It\u2019s all integrated into the movement of the body. And I think you are an incredible ambassador for it. So thank you for that. And you\u2019re a very, very, very good educator.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nsima Inyang: <\/strong>Thank you.<strong>Tim Ferriss: <\/strong>That is hard to do. That is hard to do in a very crowded media landscape. And I saw that video and I was like, \u201cHuh, interesting.\u201d And then Mark\u2019s name popped up and I was like, \u201cI think I recognize that mutant.\u201d Hold on a second and I texted Mark, and here we are. I\u2019m glad it happened and we\u2019ll link to everything in the show notes, folks. We\u2019re going to go get some food, which I\u2019m very excited about, and show notes, as per usual, tim.blog\/podcast, we\u2019ll link to everything. And I can guarantee you, if you search for this episode, Nsima, N-S-I-M-A, there will be one and only. It\u2019s hard for me to imagine getting a collection of those. And as always, folks, until next time, be it just a bit kinder than as necessary to others and also to yourself, very important. Compassion that doesn\u2019t include you is incomplete, as Jack Kornfield would say. And thanks for tuning in. Until next time.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><script async defer src=\"https:\/\/platform.instagram.com\/en_US\/embeds.js\"><\/script><br \/>\n<br \/><a href=\"https:\/\/hop.clickbank.net\/?affiliate=infohatch&amp;vendor=J1R2C\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-10614 aligncenter\" src=\"http:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png\" alt=\"Profit Gen\" width=\"400\" height=\"217\" srcset=\"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px.png 400w, https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/profit-gen400px-300x163.png 300w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 400px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><br \/><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Please enjoy this transcript of my interview with Nsima Inyang (@nsimainyang), a strength athlete and movement coach and co-host of Mark Bell\u2019s Power Project, one [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":11243,"comment_status":"","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[13],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11242","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growth"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11242","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11242"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11242\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/11243"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11242"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11242"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/parmaks.com\/Resources\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11242"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}